Hi Steve, I am glad to see this topic being discussed!
With so many tablets coming out and so many people expecting to be able to touch their screens it seems like we really need to figure out how to add touch features to Etoys. It is will appeal to children's enthusiasm for touching the things they are curious about.
Last year in Wilmington Bert had a start on an adaptation for the iPad. I know he was not satisfied that he had solved all the problems. Did you try it? I didn't try it but Avigail did and liked the idea.
One of the problem areas for young users of Etoys is the size of the little green arrows, up,down, add functions etc. They are small and even though they get larger under the cursor they do present difficulties that will just be made worse if fingertips are at work. I have wondered if it would be a good idea to have sets of tiles be enlarged when the cursor is any place inside that area. If the cursor moved to another category of tiles, the first category would shrink back to the size it is now and the new area would increase to the larger size.
This spring my students made Catch as Catch Can games and some of them included scripted magnifiers and round glass mags.Magnifiers make things under the cursor very readable and I think they would be large enough to be touched with a fingertip.
The description of the Bamboo hover/click sounds interesting.
I wish I could be more help to the developers; but so far the best help I can provide is to avoid asking for new features. The core developers team does an amazing job of moving ideas forward for releases. Thanks to everyone! Regards, Kathleen
---- Original message ----
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 04:01:20 -0400 From: Steve Thomas sthomas1@gosargon.com Subject: [etoys-dev] Touch Interface thoughts To: etoys-dev etoys-dev@squeakland.org
How will we handle multi-touch in Etoys?
- Multiple Mice:
When you touch the screen with multiple fingers you get "many mice" So, how can I get the mouseX and mouseY for each "mouse"? Thinking about this for my version of Slice it. So I can imagine one way would be a collection of mice, one could iterate through.
- No Mouse Fat Fingers problem:
A while back I had a conversation with an expert (some 17 or 18 year old kid who had built a Theremin remote control for his TV) and the idea came to me, I asked him about the power consumption, costs and if there were any interference issues and from the discussion it would seem this may be doable within XO-3 constraints. It would operate similar to the Bamboo Fun tablet which detects the stylus when it hovers over the tablet and you can move the mouse without touching the tablet, then it clicks when you touch the tablet. One issues I can foresee would be when you "hover" your finger over the screen if the mouse pointer is right under your finger, it would block the view of the pointer, so you would have to position the pointer "above" the finger. But then when you touch you are not "clicking" where you touch.Of course part of my problem my be I am thinking like a mouse ;) Stephen ________________ _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
If we had the luxury of starting over, we might make a UI much better suited for touch. E.g. I like the UI ideas in this paper:
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4257
(try this URL to download touch11submit.pdf if the above does not work)
I think we still could get to a reasonably good solution without such radical changes.
- Bert -
On 24.06.2011, at 14:31, kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi Steve, I am glad to see this topic being discussed!
With so many tablets coming out and so many people expecting to be able to touch their screens it seems like we really need to figure out how to add touch features to Etoys. It is will appeal to children's enthusiasm for touching the things they are curious about.
Last year in Wilmington Bert had a start on an adaptation for the iPad. I know he was not satisfied that he had solved all the problems. Did you try it? I didn't try it but Avigail did and liked the idea.
One of the problem areas for young users of Etoys is the size of the little green arrows, up,down, add functions etc. They are small and even though they get larger under the cursor they do present difficulties that will just be made worse if fingertips are at work. I have wondered if it would be a good idea to have sets of tiles be enlarged when the cursor is any place inside that area. If the cursor moved to another category of tiles, the first category would shrink back to the size it is now and the new area would increase to the larger size.
This spring my students made Catch as Catch Can games and some of them included scripted magnifiers and round glass mags.Magnifiers make things under the cursor very readable and I think they would be large enough to be touched with a fingertip.
The description of the Bamboo hover/click sounds interesting.
I wish I could be more help to the developers; but so far the best help I can provide is to avoid asking for new features. The core developers team does an amazing job of moving ideas forward for releases. Thanks to everyone! Regards, Kathleen
---- Original message ----
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 04:01:20 -0400 From: Steve Thomas sthomas1@gosargon.com Subject: [etoys-dev] Touch Interface thoughts To: etoys-dev etoys-dev@squeakland.org
How will we handle multi-touch in Etoys?
- Multiple Mice:
When you touch the screen with multiple fingers you get "many mice" So, how can I get the mouseX and mouseY for each "mouse"? Thinking about this for my version of Slice it. So I can imagine one way would be a collection of mice, one could iterate through.
- No Mouse Fat Fingers problem:
A while back I had a conversation with an expert (some 17 or 18 year old kid who had built a Theremin remote control for his TV) and the idea came to me, I asked him about the power consumption, costs and if there were any interference issues and from the discussion it would seem this may be doable within XO-3 constraints. It would operate similar to the Bamboo Fun tablet which detects the stylus when it hovers over the tablet and you can move the mouse without touching the tablet, then it clicks when you touch the tablet. One issues I can foresee would be when you "hover" your finger over the screen if the mouse pointer is right under your finger, it would block the view of the pointer, so you would have to position the pointer "above" the finger. But then when you touch you are not "clicking" where you touch.
Of course part of my problem my be I am thinking like a mouse ;) Stephen
This is a little similar to the microsoft xbox 360 environment ?
Also: Some new touch pads will have touch sensitive backsides to avoid obsructing fingers.
Some kind of zooming of the interface sounds like a option for working with touch interface. Screen realestate will more important to manage. Etoys can get messy fast with several scripts.
Karl
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.dewrote:
If we had the luxury of starting over, we might make a UI much better suited for touch. E.g. I like the UI ideas in this paper:
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4257(try this URL to download touch11submit.pdf if the above does not work)
http://tinyurl.com/64y98hkI think we still could get to a reasonably good solution without such radical changes.
- Bert -
On 24.06.2011, at 14:31, kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi Steve, I am glad to see this topic being discussed!
With so many tablets coming out and so many people expecting to be able
to touch their screens it seems like we really need to figure out how to add touch features to Etoys. It is will appeal to children's enthusiasm for touching the things they are curious about.
Last year in Wilmington Bert had a start on an adaptation for the iPad. I
know he was not satisfied that he had solved all the problems. Did you try it? I didn't try it but Avigail did and liked the idea.
One of the problem areas for young users of Etoys is the size of the
little green arrows, up,down, add functions etc. They are small and even though they get larger under the cursor they do present difficulties that will just be made worse if fingertips are at work. I have wondered if it would be a good idea to have sets of tiles be enlarged when the cursor is any place inside that area. If the cursor moved to another category of tiles, the first category would shrink back to the size it is now and the new area would increase to the larger size.
This spring my students made Catch as Catch Can games and some of them
included scripted magnifiers and round glass mags.Magnifiers make things under the cursor very readable and I think they would be large enough to be touched with a fingertip.
The description of the Bamboo hover/click sounds interesting.
I wish I could be more help to the developers; but so far the best help I
can provide is to avoid asking for new features. The core developers team does an amazing job of moving ideas forward for releases. Thanks to everyone!
Regards, Kathleen
---- Original message ----
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 04:01:20 -0400 From: Steve Thomas sthomas1@gosargon.com Subject: [etoys-dev] Touch Interface thoughts To: etoys-dev etoys-dev@squeakland.org
How will we handle multi-touch in Etoys?
- Multiple Mice:
When you touch the screen with multiple fingers you get "many mice" So, how can I get the mouseX and mouseY for each "mouse"? Thinking about this for my version of Slice it. So I can imagine one way would be a collection of mice, one could iterate through.
- No Mouse Fat Fingers problem:
A while back I had a conversation with an expert (some 17 or 18 year old kid who had built a Theremin remote control for his TV) and the idea came to me, I asked him about the power consumption, costs and if there were any interference issues and from the discussion it would seem this may be doable within XO-3 constraints. It would operate similar to the Bamboo Fun tablet which detects the stylus when it hovers over the tablet and you can move the mouse without touching the tablet, then it clicks when you touch the tablet. One issues I can foresee would be when you "hover" your finger over the screen if the mouse pointer is right under your finger, it would block the view of the pointer, so you would have to position the pointer "above" the finger. But then when you touch you are not "clicking" where you touch.
Of course part of my problem my be I am thinking like a mouse ;) Stephen
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Yes, in the paper they say it was "heavily inspired by Kodu".
Btw, I just made a new build of the iPad app (the old one expired, I had to renew my developer license first):
http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/
Also wrote a little explanation there. Installation has become a lot easier, plus you can even change your image for experimenting.
- Bert -
On 25.06.2011, at 00:09, karl ramberg wrote:
This is a little similar to the microsoft xbox 360 environment ?
Also: Some new touch pads will have touch sensitive backsides to avoid obsructing fingers.
Some kind of zooming of the interface sounds like a option for working with touch interface. Screen realestate will more important to manage. Etoys can get messy fast with several scripts.
Karl
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
If we had the luxury of starting over, we might make a UI much better suited for touch. E.g. I like the UI ideas in this paper:
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4257(try this URL to download touch11submit.pdf if the above does not work)
http://tinyurl.com/64y98hkI think we still could get to a reasonably good solution without such radical changes.
- Bert -
On 24.06.2011, at 14:31, kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi Steve, I am glad to see this topic being discussed!
With so many tablets coming out and so many people expecting to be able to touch their screens it seems like we really need to figure out how to add touch features to Etoys. It is will appeal to children's enthusiasm for touching the things they are curious about.
Last year in Wilmington Bert had a start on an adaptation for the iPad. I know he was not satisfied that he had solved all the problems. Did you try it? I didn't try it but Avigail did and liked the idea.
One of the problem areas for young users of Etoys is the size of the little green arrows, up,down, add functions etc. They are small and even though they get larger under the cursor they do present difficulties that will just be made worse if fingertips are at work. I have wondered if it would be a good idea to have sets of tiles be enlarged when the cursor is any place inside that area. If the cursor moved to another category of tiles, the first category would shrink back to the size it is now and the new area would increase to the larger size.
This spring my students made Catch as Catch Can games and some of them included scripted magnifiers and round glass mags.Magnifiers make things under the cursor very readable and I think they would be large enough to be touched with a fingertip.
The description of the Bamboo hover/click sounds interesting.
I wish I could be more help to the developers; but so far the best help I can provide is to avoid asking for new features. The core developers team does an amazing job of moving ideas forward for releases. Thanks to everyone! Regards, Kathleen
---- Original message ----
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 04:01:20 -0400 From: Steve Thomas sthomas1@gosargon.com Subject: [etoys-dev] Touch Interface thoughts To: etoys-dev etoys-dev@squeakland.org
How will we handle multi-touch in Etoys?
- Multiple Mice:
When you touch the screen with multiple fingers you get "many mice" So, how can I get the mouseX and mouseY for each "mouse"? Thinking about this for my version of Slice it. So I can imagine one way would be a collection of mice, one could iterate through.
- No Mouse Fat Fingers problem:
A while back I had a conversation with an expert (some 17 or 18 year old kid who had built a Theremin remote control for his TV) and the idea came to me, I asked him about the power consumption, costs and if there were any interference issues and from the discussion it would seem this may be doable within XO-3 constraints. It would operate similar to the Bamboo Fun tablet which detects the stylus when it hovers over the tablet and you can move the mouse without touching the tablet, then it clicks when you touch the tablet. One issues I can foresee would be when you "hover" your finger over the screen if the mouse pointer is right under your finger, it would block the view of the pointer, so you would have to position the pointer "above" the finger. But then when you touch you are not "clicking" where you touch.
Of course part of my problem my be I am thinking like a mouse ;) Stephen
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
karl ramberg -
kharness＠illinois.edu