etoys-dev December 2009

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

14 participants
26 discussions

Re: [squeakland] Re: the reasons for ranking
by Karl Ramberg 09 Jun '10

09 Jun '10

On 2009-09-30 17:20, Kim Rose wrote: > Hey, John, > > Nice to see you are still around and interested -- hope you are doing > well. Thanks for the comments. > > As for me and Viewpoints -- there is one reason only for ranking and > that is filtering in an attempt to bring the best educational examples > and those illustrative of etoys' strengths to the attention of the > community. So, I, for one, am hoping that those "voting" are not > voting for any particular child, author or person, but for the example > itself -- I hope those voting/ranking are asking "is this a fine > exemplar to help teach a concept, principle, or powerful idea?". The > more the example answers back with a "yes" the higher the rank. Also, > the more complete an example the higher the rank. How disclosing of > what the Etoy is meant to do is in the example? Does it have an > explanation of what it is? If it is a game does it have instruction > on how to play and the goal of the game? A googlish way of ranking is to use links/ references to a projects. If teachers/users could make a group or curriculum of projects on the site, we could rank from the refs to projects. I tried to rank a few project, but it's quite hard to do. There are to many things to consider. I'm not a teacher, so for me to rank appropriateness of a project for a classroom situation is not really realistic Karl > > I hope that teachers who encourage their students to upload projects > will *only* allow sharing if their student provides an "About" flap, > or some intro/explanation of the Etoy and some instruction on where to > start, the aim of the project, etc. The most beautiful simulation of > something will fall completely flat with someone if they have no real > idea of what they are looking at or what the script they are playing > with is meant to do. Etoys are intended to teach and help us learn; > learning cannot occur without context. No author should assume their > project will be self disclosing; it will not. Our users have a > variety of levels of expertise in both Etoys and subject matter areas; > providing more context can only help. > > If there is no "ranking" in place and everything is posted the > offerings soon get overwhelming and most difficult to navigate. We > found this years ago when we had an active "super-swiki". Projects > that were no more than a single sketch with no script at all were > posted and only "muddied the waters" for those wading in an attempt to > find something with some meaningful content. > > I hope the community will bear this in mind when "ranking" what gets > uploaded and understand that not everyone can be represented in a > featured showcase. > -- Kim > > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:58 AM, voiklis wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I apologize for joining this conversation so late; I am a longtime, >> though recently quiet, member of the community. >> >> I understand that the ranking system is an attempt to enable people >> to judge the quality of a contribution (or contributor) based on some >> directly observable measure of reputation. On first sight, one could >> argue that such a system overcomes the problem that in the >> face-to-face world reputation is not directly observable. In order to >> get an honest assessment of a person's reputation, one has to invest >> a lot of time building trust with the people familiar with that >> person. Even then, a trustworthy assessment requires direct >> observation of the person's actions. >> >> A ranking system would appear to reduce that effort by half; knowing >> the person's reputation among his/her peers, one only needs to assess >> the work. >> >> The problem with that reasoning is that electronic ranking systems >> are highly susceptible to manipulation. Building reputation becomes >> the goal of the activity for many people and they use all sorts of >> seemingly harmless social and technological means to inflate their >> numbers. Our lab has been studying this phenomenon through both >> observational studies of online communities and laboratory >> experiments. The two papers below report on the phenomenon as it >> presents itself in Digg, the news aggregation site. >> >> The first paper demonstrates that a tit-for-tat game of reciprocity >> inflates the reputation of contributors and their contributions >> without reflecting anything substantive about their contributions. >> The second paper really brings out the negative consequences of this >> phenomenon. The paper reports on an experiment where people judged >> how interesting they found the contribution. The ranking values of >> the articles were set by the investigator; sometime the rank of the >> article was set high, at other times low. Experimental subjects rated >> higher-ranked contributions as more interesting than lower ranked >> contributions. The same article was rated as highly interesting when >> its rank was set high and uninteresting when ranked low. Duncan Watts >> (of small-world networks fame) observed the same phenomenon with >> music rating. >> >> What this means in the present discussion is that people will likely >> ignore low ranking contributions. Worse still, when they do actually >> look at those contributions they are likely to see what the ranking >> value led them to expect rather than the qualities of the >> contribution itself. >> >> Unless we can find scientific research that demonstrates any benefits >> to ranking, I think we should be wary of using such systems. >> >> All best, >> >> John >> >> Sadlon, E., Sakamoto, Y., Dever, H. J., & Nickerson, J. V. (2008). >> The karma of Digg: Reciprocity in online social networks. In R. Gopal >> and R. Ramesh (Eds.), Proceedings of the 18th Annual Workshop on >> Information Technologies and Systems. >> http://cog.mgnt.stevens-tech.edu/~yasu/papers/reciprocity.pdf >> >> Sakamoto, Y., Ma, J., & Nickerson, J. V. (2009). 2377 people like >> this article: The influence of others' decisions on yours. In N. >> Taatgen, H. van Rijn, L. Schomaker, and J. Nerbonne (Eds.), >> Proceedings of the 31st Annual Conference of the Cognitive Science >> Society.http://cog.mgnt.stevens-tech.edu/~yasu/papers/cogscidigg1.pdf >> >> Salganik, M. J., Dodds, P. S., and Watts, D. J. (2006). Experimental >> study of inequality and unpredictability in an artificial cultural >> market. Science, 311(5762):854-856. >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1121066[/url] >> >> >> >> >> -------------------- m2f -------------------- >> >> (from forum) >> http://squeakland.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11554#11554 >> >> -------------------- m2f -------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> squeakland(a)squeakland.org >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > > Viewpoints Research is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to > improving "powerful ideas education" for the world's children and > advancing the state of systems research and personal computing. Please > visit us online at www.vpri.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Squeakland mailing list > Squeakland(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >

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etoys-dev meet today at 19:00 GMT on #etoys
by Timothy Falconer 09 Jun '10

09 Jun '10

Hi everyone, As before, we'll be having a software meet on the IRC freenode channel #etoys at 19:00 GMT (3pm ET, 12 PT). You can also attend by clicking "chat" on squeakland.org. It might be helpful to watch the two preview videos here: http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/ Also, have a look at the current Etoys 4 roadmap: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.sy… Take care, Tim

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popups in project-info
by Scott Wallace 31 May '10

31 May '10

Hi, Tim, and all, Attached is a fileout providing changes to the project-info dialog as requested for the benefit of the "showcase" on Squeakland.org. Basically, the "project info" dialog now contains three "enumerated" items, "Subject", "Age", and "Region". These three are all governed by pop-ups (in local language) rather than by type-ins. The results are included in the project manifest. Important notes: (1) It is essential that this be filed in to an image updated at least through update 2246PolygonFix-kfr. If filed in to an earlier image, subsequently loading updates will clobber some of the changes provided here. (2) Yoshiki is also modifying code in the EToyProjectDetailsMorph area in this same time-frame, so integration is likely to be necessary before our two fileouts are published. (3) There are a few obvious rough edges which someone may wish to tweak, though I don't know of any show-stoppers. For example, this has always been an English-only dialog, but now that the field names are localized, there may be layout issues in some languages (once translations are available.) Also, for the pop-up fields, if they've never been set they show as blank, whereas once they've been set to "(none)" (equivalent to blank) they show the text "(none)". Probably we should always show "(none)" when values for these three popups have not been supplied. Also, since some of the fields are now type-in and some are pop-ups, perhaps some UI convention (slight color difference?) should be used to hint at whether a field functions as a type-in or a pop-up. (4) This turned out to involve quite a bit of code, most of it written with a fever and at very late hours. So there's the distinct possibility of errors. I did test it briefly and it seemed to work as I expected. HOWEVER: it really needs verification by someone else. (5) The Preamble (please read if planning to test or use): -=------ Change Set: projectInfoPopUps-sw Date: 8 August 2009 Author: Scott Wallace Changes to the project-info dialog, in support of new data desired for the 'showcase' on squeakland.org: - 'Sub-Category' removed. - Subject, Age, and Region are added as pop-ups. - Choices for Subject, Age, Region popups, and corresponding codes, obtainable from web-site. - Project manifest now includes Age, Subject (category,) and Region info. The codes are strings of numbers, e.g. '554' as a Subject code means 'Language Arts' (look in #defaultAgeTriplets, #defaultSubjectTriplets, #defaultRegionTriplets on class-side of EToyProjectDetailsMorph.) - Names of fields are presented to the user in localized form. - Choices for values of pop-up fields are presented to the user in localized form. Notes: - There is support provided for obtaining up-to-date lists of the subject, age, and region alternatives from the web site (see EToyProjectDetailsMorph class updateTripletsFromWebSite) but it is not actually called at this point, out of concern for potential for long delay if connection to web site is slow. - The *region* codes are at present *not* obtained from the web-site (even when the user explicitly calls #updateTripletsFromWebSite,) but rather a 'fake' set of regions, basically the continents, is provided. This is probably temporary. We have no reasonable way to confront the user with a pop-up showing 250 choices. However, as per Tim's request, I have made it a point to include Antarctica in the region list. (Tim: look at method #defaultRegionTriplets for the current point of departure, if you want to adopt that, temporarily at least, on the web site. And/or of course change any defaults as needed. ----------- Cheers, -- Scott

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Making a Squeakland Etoys release - wiki page questions contibued in new thread
by Milan Zimmermann 24 Dec '09

24 Dec '09

Thanks as always Bert: You answer everything almost immediately - when do you sleep? :) A few notes inline On December 20, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 21.12.2009, at 00:04, Milan Zimmermann wrote: > > Hi : > > > > I finally got back to this. > > > > I tried to follow instructions below how to make a Squeakland release but > > failed to understand several points. I modified the original text created > > by Yoshiki thinking I will add details but probably just added confusion. > > In any case i was unable to understan what to do start to end. > > > > http://wiki.squeakland.org/display/sq/Creating+Etoys+Release+for+Squeakla > >nd%2C+OLPC%2C+or+Etoys-to-go > > > > Would someone who knows this process have time to clarify this page at > > some point, and add answers to the TODO's etc? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Milan > > Just a few data points: > > The 4.0 dev image at etoys.laptop.org is identical to the original > tinlizzie one except it has been saved at 800x600 pixels and Pango was > disabled. See > > svn log http://etoys.laptop.org/svn/trunk/etoys/etoys-dev.image > thanks. > I made the Sugar release image from that dev image by running these scripts > in Linux: > > http://etoys.laptop.org/svn/trunk/etoys/mkRelease.sh > http://etoys.laptop.org/svn/trunk/etoys/mkRelease.st I saw them but did not know what exactly are they used for. I introduced them to the wiki page: http://wiki.squeakland.org/display/sq/Creating+Etoys+Release+for+Squeakland… to-go > > (though for the 4.0.2339 release I cheated and re-saved the release image > while running in a 1200x900 Sugar emulator [being careful to first enter > the empty top project] so that on startup on the XO the menu bar does not > have to be rebuild) > > The Mac release and To-Go release I built on a Mac using the scripts that > formerly resided at > > http://svn.squeakland.org/installers/ > > There was buildImage.sh / buildImage.st that updated the image, and > makeEtoysMac / makeEtoysToGo to create the app bundles. I ran the > setVersion script between building the image and bundling the app to > adjust the version numbers while avoiding manual errors when it was > getting late. Also added this to wiki. Do we need to advocate Tim to get those files back? I have a question that you may have a pointer to: Do you know what Yoshiki is refering to when he said, regarding making the MSI installer (it is in the same page on wiki): Execute exportAssetsFromToGo.sh - where can I find this script? Thanks, Milan > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev >

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Bug tracking in Linux
by Bert Freudenberg 24 Dec '09

24 Dec '09

On 21.12.2009, at 03:30, Milan Zimmerman (JIRA) wrote: > > > [ http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-638 ] > > Milan Zimmerman commented on SQ-638: > ------------------------------------ > > Hi Bert: I see you already discovered this recording problem long time ago. Recording is not a problem on Windows (I tested it today as well), so it seems either Unix VM or XO distribution specific. So maybe we do not need equivalent ticket here... Maybe not. But maybe too ;) [ As a side note, it's preferable to have those kinds of discussion on the mailing list rather than in the bug tracker. It's good practice: http://producingoss.com/en/bug-tracker-usage.html ] If the Squeakland developers want to know which problems exist with Etoys, then we expect the Squeakland bug tracker to be conclusive. So for that reason alone I'd think a ticket is warranted. The main question is who will see to it this gets fixed. It does sound like a VM problem to me. But since Etoys is one of the rare Squeak applications recording sound, we should keep track of it. Not necessarily fixing it ourselves, but trying to get the right people looking into it. So the problem was observed on a XO using the OLPC operating system. So dev.laptop.org is the right place to report the bug. But that OS is a Fedora derivative, and it uses the Fedora Squeak packages. So the OLPC Etoys maintainer should file an upstream bug with Fedora. But Fedora gets Etoys and Squeak from somewhere else, so Fedora's Etoys maintainer should file an upstream bug with Squeakland. Then someone at Squeakland who feels responsible for Linux VM issues with Etoys should file and monitor an upstream bug with squeak.org. Once a fix is provided it flows downstream from Squeak to Fedora to OLPC. (it's even a bit more complicated because the VM and Etoys come from different places, but you get the idea) Taking short cuts to this longwinded procedure is necessary in the short term because Etoys is just now getting established as a regular part of Linux distributions. But building that network of maintainers is essential. There are just too many ways to get Etoys to be able to track it all on our own: http://wiki.squeakland.org/display/sq/Bug+Tracking The situation is different on Mac and Windows where so far Squeakland is the only "vendor". But IMHO Squeakland cannot and should not try to be the vendor for Etoys on Linux. It's a Good Thing (tm) there are no RPMs nor DEBs on Squeakland for Etoys 4, because that would interfere with and undermine the efforts of maintainers in the distros. This of course should be mentioned on the downloads page, and a tar ball should be provided so that packagers know where to start and get new releases from. - Bert -

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etoys-4.0.2339 packaged for Fedora 12
by Bert Freudenberg 23 Dec '09

23 Dec '09

Hadn't noticed this earlier. Thanks Daniel! Have you "officially" taken over Fedora packaging from Gavin? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-package-announce/2009-December/msg00… - Bert - • From: updates fedoraproject org • To: fedora-package-announce redhat com • Subject: Fedora 12 Update: etoys-4.0.2339-1.fc12 • Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:31:53 +0000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fedora Update Notification FEDORA-2009-12467 2009-12-02 04:02:27 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name : etoys Product : Fedora 12 Version : 4.0.2339 Release : 1.fc12 URL : http://squeakland.org/ Summary : A media-rich model, game, and simulation construction kit and authoring tool Description : Squeak Etoys was inspired by LOGO, PARC-Smalltalk, Hypercard, and starLOGO. It is a media-rich authoring environment with a simple powerful scripted object model for many kinds of objects created by end-users that runs on many platforms, and is free and open source. It includes 2D and 3D graphics, images, text, particles, pres-entations, web-pages, videos, sound and MIDI, etc. It includes the ability to share desktops with other Etoy users in real-time, so many forms of immersive mentoring and play can be done over the Internet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Update Information: Fixes for view source, activity launching, and screen performance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ChangeLog: * Tue Dec 1 2009 Daniel Drake <dsd laptop org> - 4.0.2339-1 - new upstream release * Mon Nov 23 2009 Daniel Drake <dsd laptop org> - 4.0.2332-2 - don't own /usr/share/sugar/activities and move sugar activity to subpackage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This update can be installed with the "yum" update program. Use su -c 'yum update etoys' at the command line. For more information, refer to "Managing Software with yum", available at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/yum/ . All packages are signed with the Fedora Project GPG key. More details on the GPG keys used by the Fedora Project can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/keys --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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A problem with squekland project links
by Milan Zimmermann 21 Dec '09

21 Dec '09

Not sure where to report this: Clicking on any featured project on Squeakland 500 Servlet Exception /sm/includes/pageDefs.jsp:1: code too large _jspService(javax.servlet.http.HttpServletRequest request, ^ Note: /home/immuexa/www/squeakland/WEB-INF/work/_jsp/_showcase/_project__jsp.java uses unchecked or unsafe operations. Note: Recompile with -Xlint:unchecked for details. 1 error

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Re: [JIRA] Commented: (SQ-154) Make it simple to show and hide the toolbar
by Scott Wallace 20 Dec '09

20 Dec '09

On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:25 PM, jira(a)immuexa.com wrote: > [ http://tracker.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-154?page=comments#action_35752 > ] > > Milan Zimmerman commented on SQ-154: > ------------------------------------ > > This makes sense. I am out of time now, but will test tomorrow or > early weekend. Thank you, Milan! By mutual agreement among Bert, Yoshiki, and me, we decided to push the latest fixes embodied in SQ-88, SQ-154, and SQ-257 to the etoys4.0 update stream today. This will make it easier for more people to test, and we still have time before squeakfest/brasil to fix any issues that may arise. Cheers, -- Scott

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Translation ambiguities
by Bert Freudenberg 19 Dec '09

19 Dec '09

Begin forwarded message: > > From: Markus Schlager <m.slg(a)gmx.de> > Date: 18. Dezember 2009 23:32:00 MEZ > To: OLPC Localization <localization(a)lists.laptop.org> > Subject: Re: [Localization] Localization: What works and what does not (Sayamindu Dasgupta) > > Hi Sayamindu, hi Carlo > > On Fri, 18 Dec 2009, Carlo Falciola wrote: > >> - maybe line in source code is too fine grain, and is not really easy to understand the context from unknown code... I can actually already do it by myself in "very" special cases by grep, but takes a lot to derive what the code snoppet is doing... maybe to automatically get the name of the class/object/procedure where the string lies may be a better hint. > > With etoys at least, this is already the case, I think. This is not bad, since it helps finding the code lines (if you're familiar with squeak- smalltalk in this case). But as illustrated with Carlo's example 'play', translators would need the possibility to split the translation according to context. If a string like 'open' is used e.g. in etoys in several scripts, being translator I'd like to have the possibility to replicate this message-string for any (or groups) of these scripts and reduce the context. > > Something like > > msgid: 'open' > used in: script1, script2, script3, script4 > > should be able to become > > msgid: 'open' > used in: sript1, script2 > tranlation: 'Öffne' > > msgid: 'open' > used in: sript3 > tranlation: 'öffnen' > > msgid: 'open' > used in: sript4 > tranlation: 'offen'' > > > As far as it concerns etoys, I'd be glad if we could get at least these three message-contexts: > - etoys-tile > - menu-entry > - balloon-help > > This would solve most of the translation-ambiguousities I've encoutered so far. IMHO the priority of this issue should be raised back to Critical: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-139 - Bert -

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Re: [croquet-dev] [ANN] Collaborative Curved Space Explorer in Croquet
by Nikolay Suslov 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

Hello Ed, Yes, I have done some experimental steps on the way to Open Cobalt integration. It is available to try out, and the links are below in the CCSE announcement mail. Best regards, Nikolay On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Ed Boyce <edboyce(a)bu.edu> wrote: > Nikolay, > > Very, very awesome! > > I was wondering whether you have looked into seeing that it gets ported > to the Open Cobalt branch (www.opencobalt.org) of Croquet, or if you > have already done so? > > Best Regards, > > Ed Boyce > > Nikolay Suslov wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Happy to announce, that the first version of Collaborative Curved Space > > Explorer - CCSE SDK 1.0a is out! > > > > Collaborative Curved Space Explorer (CCSE) - is viewed to be in future > the > > full-featured multi-user toolbox for exploring the structure of curved > > spaces in 3D (based on Croquet <http://www.opencroquet.org/>) with > > real-time > > rendering in curved spaces. Jeff Weeks originally developed (and continue > > developing now) the application Curved > > Spaces<http://geometrygames.org/CurvedSpaces/index.html>for exploring > > and rendering curved spaces in real-time using C language.CCSEis > > actually the port of it main part into Smalltalk and Croquet. Thus it > > allows to run complex time-based simulations and achieve a very deep > level > > of collaborative interactions. > > > > More information and screen-shots here: > > > http://nsuslovi.blogspot.com/2009/12/collaborative-curved-space-explorer-v1… > > > > Croquet Source code: > > http://jabberwocky.croquetproject.org:8889/CCurvedSpaceExplorer.html > > > > Open Cobalt support: > > http://croquet-src-01.oit.duke.edu:8886/CurvedSpacesInCobalt,html > > > > Ready-to-try distributions with CCSE included: > > > > 1. Krestianstvo (on > > russian)<http://www.krestianstvo.ru/sdk/Krestianstvo1.0a.zip> > > 2. Open Croquet 1.0.25 SDK > > <http://www.krestianstvo.ru/sdk/CCSE/CroquetSDK1.0.25-CCSE.zip> > > 3. Open Cobalt R26 alpha > > SDK< > http://www.krestianstvo.ru/sdk/CCSE/opencobalt-1.0alpha1rc26-ccse.zip> > > > > Happy exploring! > > > > Thanks, > > Nikolay Suslov > > > > >

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etoys-dev December 2009