Hello all,
A few weeks ago I read Etoys4 was not shipped for latest Sugar release. Indeed after updating XO to latest stable Sugar, I can see no newer Etoys version is proposed. What is the technical problem behind?
Hilaire
On 25.10.2009, at 08:47, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
Hello all,
A few weeks ago I read Etoys4 was not shipped for latest Sugar release.
That must be some misinformation. The latest Sugar has a pretty recent Etoys 4 version:
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Notes#Getting_the_sources
Indeed after updating XO to latest stable Sugar, I can see no newer Etoys version is proposed.
How did you "update Sugar"?
What is the technical problem behind?
AFAIK Fedora includes 4.0.2319 already, 4.0.2332 was packaged too:
http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/fedora/updates/testing/11/i386/etoys-4.0.23...
- Bert -
2009/10/26 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
Indeed after updating XO to latest stable Sugar, I can see no newer Etoys version is proposed.
How did you "update Sugar"?
With the usual olpc-update, I guess it is unsync running sugar on a usb-key is not an option. Updating the XO seems boring now.
On 26.10.2009, at 16:11, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/26 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
Indeed after updating XO to latest stable Sugar, I can see no newer Etoys version is proposed.
How did you "update Sugar"?
With the usual olpc-update, I guess it is unsync running sugar on a usb-key is not an option. Updating the XO seems boring now.
I don't think olpc-update works, yet. Active development work is happening on the new XO-1.5:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
so you should try updating that.
It is also being retrofitted to the XO-1:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_XO-1
- Bert -
I am hesitating a lot in spending a couple of hours to install on several XO laptops something that may be not reliable (hacker level), and which my students will reject instantaneously (non hacker level, zero level of tolerance toward non reliable system), and which prevent any potential pedagogical actions (not even there as there are many boring technical pb to fix or overcome technical limitation, bad, bad )
Is the update path you suggested reliable?
Hilaire
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On 26.10.2009, at 16:11, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/26 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
Indeed after updating XO to latest stable Sugar, I can see no newer Etoys version is proposed.
How did you "update Sugar"?
With the usual olpc-update, I guess it is unsync running sugar on a usb-key is not an option. Updating the XO seems boring now.
I don't think olpc-update works, yet. Active development work is happening on the new XO-1.5:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
so you should try updating that.
It is also being retrofitted to the XO-1:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_XO-1
- Bert -
On 27.10.2009, at 03:50, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
I am hesitating a lot in spending a couple of hours to install on several XO laptops something that may be not reliable (hacker level), and which my students will reject instantaneously (non hacker level, zero level of tolerance toward non reliable system), and which prevent any potential pedagogical actions (not even there as there are many boring technical pb to fix or overcome technical limitation, bad, bad )
Hesitating is healthy. You need to judge whether the benefits (improvements in a newer version) outweigh the risks (possibility of breakage). I'm pretty sure it will work fine, but ultimately we release this under a license that says
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED
Is the update path you suggested reliable?
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
- Bert -
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.dewrote:
On 27.10.2009, at 03:50, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
I am hesitating a lot in spending a couple of hours to install on
several XO laptops something that may be not reliable (hacker level), and which my students will reject instantaneously (non hacker level, zero level of tolerance toward non reliable system), and which prevent any potential pedagogical actions (not even there as there are many boring technical pb to fix or overcome technical limitation, bad, bad )
Hesitating is healthy. You need to judge whether the benefits (improvements in a newer version) outweigh the risks (possibility of breakage). I'm pretty sure it will work fine, but ultimately we release this under a license that says
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED
Is the update path you suggested reliable?
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
http://etoys.laptop.org/
This page is quite invisible.
And maybe a couple of more sentences about using Terminal and logging in as root etc. could be added here.
Karl
On 27.10.2009, at 11:08, karl ramberg wrote:
On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert@freudenbergs.de
wrote:
On 27.10.2009, at 03:50, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
I am hesitating a lot in spending a couple of hours to install on several XO laptops something that may be not reliable (hacker level), and which my students will reject instantaneously (non hacker level, zero level of tolerance toward non reliable system), and which prevent any potential pedagogical actions (not even there as there are many boring technical pb to fix or overcome technical limitation, bad, bad )
Hesitating is healthy. You need to judge whether the benefits (improvements in a newer version) outweigh the risks (possibility of breakage). I'm pretty sure it will work fine, but ultimately we release this under a license that says
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED
Is the update path you suggested reliable?
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
http://etoys.laptop.org/This page is quite invisible.
Rightly so.
And maybe a couple of more sentences about using Terminal and logging in as root etc. could be added here.
If someone does not know about Terminal and becoming root, they should consult someone who does.
- Bert -
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
Yes, that's what I need to know. Just to be sure, can I just replace the .image .changes file in the XO with newer ones based from Etoys4?
Do I need to update the VM as well, or does the one in the XO still fine with newer Etoys?
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
Yes, in all case I have to do that, as I need to ship DrGeo code as well.
To share projects among XO laptop, I think I will have to use a wifi access point and a third party laptop providing FTP or Superswiki2 access. It is really ridiculous mesh network is of no help to share files.
Thanks for the info. and tips.
Hilaire
On 27.10.2009, at 15:57, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
Yes, that's what I need to know. Just to be sure, can I just replace the .image .changes file in the XO with newer ones based from Etoys4?
This should work I think but I'd recommend to install the latest RPM. That way you get all the additional files too, like translations, fixed example projects, help guides etc:
Do I need to update the VM as well, or does the one in the XO still fine with newer Etoys?
Should work fine, but again I'd recommend updating to the latest RPM. There is a reason we release updated VMs too ;)
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
Yes, in all case I have to do that, as I need to ship DrGeo code as well.
To share projects among XO laptop, I think I will have to use a wifi access point and a third party laptop providing FTP or Superswiki2 access. It is really ridiculous mesh network is of no help to share files.
Thanks for the info. and tips.
Hilaire
No problem :)
- Bert -
I just test this and it looks pretty bad. About 50% slower than original Drgeo xo bundle.
I installed the VM and Etoys image your recommended. Then I installed into this image the drgeo.cs from a PC. Usability in the XO is close to zero. All Etoys updated that way seems slow by the way (without any drgeo upgrade). Damn, this ruined the activity I planed with students tomorrow.
Hilaire
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On 27.10.2009, at 15:57, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
Yes, that's what I need to know. Just to be sure, can I just replace the .image .changes file in the XO with newer ones based from Etoys4?
This should work I think but I'd recommend to install the latest RPM. That way you get all the additional files too, like translations, fixed example projects, help guides etc:
Do I need to update the VM as well, or does the one in the XO still fine with newer Etoys?
Should work fine, but again I'd recommend updating to the latest RPM. There is a reason we release updated VMs too ;)
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
Yes, in all case I have to do that, as I need to ship DrGeo code as well.
To share projects among XO laptop, I think I will have to use a wifi access point and a third party laptop providing FTP or Superswiki2 access. It is really ridiculous mesh network is of no help to share files.
Thanks for the info. and tips.
Hilaire
No problem :)
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
I was thinking of trying to set up DrGeo for a demo to a teacher tomorrow. Sounds like maybe not yet?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Hilaire Fernandes < hilaire.fernandes@edu.ge.ch> wrote:
I just test this and it looks pretty bad. About 50% slower than original Drgeo xo bundle.
I installed the VM and Etoys image your recommended. Then I installed into this image the drgeo.cs from a PC. Usability in the XO is close to zero. All Etoys updated that way seems slow by the way (without any drgeo upgrade). Damn, this ruined the activity I planed with students tomorrow.
Hilaire
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On 27.10.2009, at 15:57, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release
by
OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest
Etoys
also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
Yes, that's what I need to know. Just to be sure, can I just replace the .image .changes file in the XO with newer ones based from Etoys4?
This should work I think but I'd recommend to install the latest RPM.
That
way you get all the additional files too, like translations, fixed
example
projects, help guides etc:
Do I need to update the VM as well, or does the one in the XO still fine with newer Etoys?
Should work fine, but again I'd recommend updating to the latest RPM.
There
is a reason we release updated VMs too ;)
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
Yes, in all case I have to do that, as I need to ship DrGeo code as
well.
To share projects among XO laptop, I think I will have to use a wifi access point and a third party laptop providing FTP or Superswiki2 access. It is really ridiculous mesh network is of no help to share files.
Thanks for the info. and tips.
Hilaire
No problem :)
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
-- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Hello Caroline,
The problem I mentioned is not inherent to DrGeo, but to the installation of a newer Etoys image in the XO/Sugar in a way suggested by Bert.
If you want to use DrGeo on XO I suggest you use the DrGeoII bundle I released in Sept 2008.
If you plan using on PC, you will have to install on a fresh Etoys to go, the DrGeo change set found at http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-324
Hopefully, RC for 4.1 will be shipped with DrGeo
Hilaire
2009/11/9 Caroline Meeks caroline@solutiongrove.com:
I was thinking of trying to set up DrGeo for a demo to a teacher tomorrow. Sounds like maybe not yet?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Hilaire Fernandes hilaire.fernandes@edu.ge.ch wrote:
I just test this and it looks pretty bad. About 50% slower than original Drgeo xo bundle.
I installed the VM and Etoys image your recommended. Then I installed into this image the drgeo.cs from a PC. Usability in the XO is close to zero. All Etoys updated that way seems slow by the way (without any drgeo upgrade). Damn, this ruined the activity I planed with students tomorrow.
Hilaire
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On 27.10.2009, at 15:57, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
Yes, that's what I need to know. Just to be sure, can I just replace the .image .changes file in the XO with newer ones based from Etoys4?
This should work I think but I'd recommend to install the latest RPM. That way you get all the additional files too, like translations, fixed example projects, help guides etc:
Do I need to update the VM as well, or does the one in the XO still fine with newer Etoys?
Should work fine, but again I'd recommend updating to the latest RPM. There is a reason we release updated VMs too ;)
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
Yes, in all case I have to do that, as I need to ship DrGeo code as well.
To share projects among XO laptop, I think I will have to use a wifi access point and a third party laptop providing FTP or Superswiki2 access. It is really ridiculous mesh network is of no help to share files.
Thanks for the info. and tips.
Hilaire
No problem :)
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
-- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
-- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline@SolutionGrove.com
617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax
Hi there.
Caloline, I thought you want to demo it not on XO but SoaS on usual PC or Mac box, right?
Hilaire, I haven't understand fully the problem you mentioned, but do you think the problem specific to XO with poor horse power, or it persists even on SoaS (Sugar liveUSB on PC box) because of Sugar related problem?
/Korakurider
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Hilaire Fernandes hilaire.fernandes@edu.ge.ch wrote:
Hello Caroline,
The problem I mentioned is not inherent to DrGeo, but to the installation of a newer Etoys image in the XO/Sugar in a way suggested by Bert.
If you want to use DrGeo on XO I suggest you use the DrGeoII bundle I released in Sept 2008.
If you plan using on PC, you will have to install on a fresh Etoys to go, the DrGeo change set found at http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-324
Hopefully, RC for 4.1 will be shipped with DrGeo
Hilaire
2009/11/9 Caroline Meeks caroline@solutiongrove.com:
I was thinking of trying to set up DrGeo for a demo to a teacher tomorrow. Sounds like maybe not yet?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Hilaire Fernandes hilaire.fernandes@edu.ge.ch wrote:
I just test this and it looks pretty bad. About 50% slower than original Drgeo xo bundle.
I installed the VM and Etoys image your recommended. Then I installed into this image the drgeo.cs from a PC. Usability in the XO is close to zero. All Etoys updated that way seems slow by the way (without any drgeo upgrade). Damn, this ruined the activity I planed with students tomorrow.
Hilaire
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On 27.10.2009, at 15:57, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
No. These OS updates are under development. The latest stable release by OLPC is still 8.2.1.
Regarding your original subject line, there is *nothing* I know that would prevent the latest Etoys to work with the latest Sugar. The latest Etoys also works with the old Sugar as already installed on the XOs.
Yes, that's what I need to know. Just to be sure, can I just replace the .image .changes file in the XO with newer ones based from Etoys4?
This should work I think but I'd recommend to install the latest RPM. That way you get all the additional files too, like translations, fixed example projects, help guides etc:
Do I need to update the VM as well, or does the one in the XO still fine with newer Etoys?
Should work fine, but again I'd recommend updating to the latest RPM. There is a reason we release updated VMs too ;)
But you would have to upgrade Etoys yourself, same procedure as ever:
Yes, in all case I have to do that, as I need to ship DrGeo code as well.
To share projects among XO laptop, I think I will have to use a wifi access point and a third party laptop providing FTP or Superswiki2 access. It is really ridiculous mesh network is of no help to share files.
Thanks for the info. and tips.
Hilaire
No problem :)
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
-- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
-- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline@SolutionGrove.com
617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax
-- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
2009/11/10 Korakurider korakurider@gmail.com:
Hi there.
Caloline, I thought you want to demo it not on XO but SoaS on usual PC or Mac box, right?
Hilaire, I haven't understand fully the problem you mentioned, but do you think the problem specific to XO with poor horse power, or it persists even on SoaS (Sugar liveUSB on PC box) because of Sugar related problem?
No as I wrote the problem does not come from the CPU power of the XO because when I try with my DrGeo XO bundle the speed is very good and perfectly useable. I think the problem come from the way Etoys image was installed on XO from RPM at http://dev.laptop.org
Hilaire
With Etoys4.0 on XO, even from the Home project, dragging the car script is unsanely slow.
Now, I installed back an etoys-3.0-2126, and I can confirm the major slow down seems to come from Etoys-4.0. Etoys-3.0 is much more reactive.
I don't know the history of update in Etoys-4.0, so I cannot tell more about which change could cause such slow down
I would really love to get Etoys4 working at full speed on XO, any idea ?
Hilaire
2009/11/10 Hilaire Fernandes hilaire.fernandes@edu.ge.ch:
2009/11/10 Korakurider korakurider@gmail.com:
Hi there.
Caloline, I thought you want to demo it not on XO but SoaS on usual PC or Mac box, right?
Hilaire, I haven't understand fully the problem you mentioned, but do you think the problem specific to XO with poor horse power, or it persists even on SoaS (Sugar liveUSB on PC box) because of Sugar related problem?
No as I wrote the problem does not come from the CPU power of the XO because when I try with my DrGeo XO bundle the speed is very good and perfectly useable. I think the problem come from the way Etoys image was installed on XO from RPM at http://dev.laptop.org
Hilaire
Well, first of all please open a bug report.
I'd suspect this might have to do with screen scaling.
- Bert -
On 10.11.2009, at 21:16, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
With Etoys4.0 on XO, even from the Home project, dragging the car script is unsanely slow.
Now, I installed back an etoys-3.0-2126, and I can confirm the major slow down seems to come from Etoys-4.0. Etoys-3.0 is much more reactive.
I don't know the history of update in Etoys-4.0, so I cannot tell more about which change could cause such slow down
I would really love to get Etoys4 working at full speed on XO, any idea ?
Hilaire
2009/11/10 Hilaire Fernandes hilaire.fernandes@edu.ge.ch:
2009/11/10 Korakurider korakurider@gmail.com:
Hi there.
Caloline, I thought you want to demo it not on XO but SoaS on usual PC or Mac box, right?
Hilaire, I haven't understand fully the problem you mentioned, but do you think the problem specific to XO with poor horse power, or it persists even on SoaS (Sugar liveUSB on PC box) because of Sugar related problem?
No as I wrote the problem does not come from the CPU power of the XO because when I try with my DrGeo XO bundle the speed is very good and perfectly useable. I think the problem come from the way Etoys image was installed on XO from RPM at http://dev.laptop.org
Hilaire
-- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Caroline Meeks -
Hilaire Fernandes -
karl ramberg -
Korakurider