Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/OLPC-Etoys080211.zip
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you think if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
Hopefully, this will be the basis for the new version of Squeakland.
For non-English version, the translation need to catch up as we have been changing code in the image, but we can't wait for translations too long. The current plan is that the packages for other languages are made gradually, and in one way or another (replace the file on the squeakland.org or make a web server dedicated for different language community and put the package for it on the server) they will be accessible to the user.
-- Yoshiki
2008/2/18, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org:
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you
OggPlugin Sound interesting :)
Do you have plan to include Ogg/Theora for video. I think it will be terribly useful as the MPEG video plugin is really limited in what you can play. Now Ogg/Theora is becoming default standard in Linux with many tools capable to record or convert to this format. In the other hand, I very often have difficulties to produce MPEG video playable in the Squeak image.
Hilaire
At Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:54:58 +0100, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
2008/2/18, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org:
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you
OggPlugin Sound interesting :)
Do you have plan to include Ogg/Theora for video. I think it will be terribly useful as the MPEG video plugin is really limited in what you can play. Now Ogg/Theora is becoming default standard in Linux with many tools capable to record or convert to this format. In the other hand, I very often have difficulties to produce MPEG video playable in the Squeak image.
As previously written, gstreamer would be a better way to go. In the current time frame, we would not put Theora right away, but it is in general a good idea.
-- Yoshiki
Hi, I'm trying this image with windows.
How to get the menu for choosing sorting options while loading a project ?
With right clic we get halo as well as with alt /clic
regards
-------- Message d'origine-------- De: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org de la part de Yoshiki Ohshima Date: lun. 18/02/2008 07:30 À: squeakland; etoys@lists.laptop.org Objet : [Squeakland] A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XOenvironments
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/OLPC-Etoys080211.zip
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you think if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
Hopefully, this will be the basis for the new version of Squeakland.
For non-English version, the translation need to catch up as we have been changing code in the image, but we can't wait for translations too long. The current plan is that the packages for other languages are made gradually, and in one way or another (replace the file on the squeakland.org or make a web server dedicated for different language community and put the package for it on the server) they will be accessible to the user.
-- Yoshiki
_______________________________________________ Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Pierre-André,
How to get the menu for choosing sorting options while loading a project ?
I'm not sure which menu.
With right clic we get halo as well as with alt /clic
As Bert wrote, it is intentional. For example, take a look at the DemonCastle1 tutorial. It says "to get halo, press the right button". We would keep the behavior similar across the platforms.
Thank you for the comment!
-- Yoshiki
On Monday 18 February 2008 12:00:11 pm Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
... if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
I prefer the plain screen (say chalkboard green) for World. A plain screen drives home the point that Squeak is a medium like board/chalk, canvas/brush and paper/pencil. The clouds and car look nice in a demo but get in the way when a chlid starts exploring the world.
FWIW, Subbu
... if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
I prefer the plain screen (say chalkboard green) for World. A plain screen drives home the point that Squeak is a medium like board/chalk, canvas/brush and paper/pencil. The clouds and car look nice in a demo but get in the way when a chlid starts exploring the world.
Thank you for the input, Subbu. Yes, we say something like this ("This is *your* new world. Make your own things!"), but the downside is that many teachers want to see something to explain from the beginning. At this point, we probably go with clouds.
-- Yoshiki
Hi,
If I start just clicking on the image, that to say the squeak.exe VM, things are working fine and right button give the menu for sorting but if I drop the image on the etoy.exe, the right button is giving halo.
regards
-------- Message d'origine-------- De: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org de la part de Yoshiki Ohshima Date: lun. 18/02/2008 07:30 À: squeakland; etoys@lists.laptop.org Objet : [Squeakland] A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XOenvironments
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/OLPC-Etoys080211.zip
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you think if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
Hopefully, this will be the basis for the new version of Squeakland.
For non-English version, the translation need to catch up as we have been changing code in the image, but we can't wait for translations too long. The current plan is that the packages for other languages are made gradually, and in one way or another (replace the file on the squeakland.org or make a web server dedicated for different language community and put the package for it on the server) they will be accessible to the user.
-- Yoshiki
_______________________________________________ Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
This certainly is the "3 button mouse" VM setting (from the F2 menu).
For Etoys, having the halo available immediately is rather useful, whereas context menus are almost unused. So that is why this setting is used.
- Bert -
On Feb 18, 2008, at 20:28 , Dreyfuss Pierre-André (EDU) wrote:
Hi,
If I start just clicking on the image, that to say the squeak.exe VM, things are working fine and right button give the menu for sorting but if I drop the image on the etoy.exe, the right button is giving halo.
regards
-------- Message d'origine-------- De: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org de la part de Yoshiki Ohshima Date: lun. 18/02/2008 07:30 À: squeakland; etoys@lists.laptop.org Objet : [Squeakland] A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XOenvironments
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/OLPC-Etoys080211.zip
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you think if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
Hopefully, this will be the basis for the new version of Squeakland.
For non-English version, the translation need to catch up as we have been changing code in the image, but we can't wait for translations too long. The current plan is that the packages for other languages are made gradually, and in one way or another (replace the file on the squeakland.org or make a web server dedicated for different language community and put the package for it on the server) they will be accessible to the user.
-- Yoshiki
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Monday 18 February 2008 12:00:11 pm Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
The 3.9-12/squeak binary gives me a "Floating point exception" error on Debian (Etch). A trace showed the fault occuring while loading libc.so.6. Is the code compiled to work only for a specific version of libc6?
VM 3.9-8 (from Squeak-3.9-8.i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz) works fine on the same box.
Anyone else face this error?
Subbu
On 2008 February 19, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Monday 18 February 2008 12:00:11 pm Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
The 3.9-12/squeak binary gives me a "Floating point exception" error on Debian (Etch). A trace showed the fault occuring while loading libc.so.6. Is the code compiled to work only for a specific version of libc6?
VM 3.9-8 (from Squeak-3.9-8.i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz) works fine on the same box.
Anyone else face this error?
With the above image, I am using the version below without problems:
squeak -version 3.9-8 #5 Tue Oct 10 11:56:09 PDT 2006 gcc 4.0.3 Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021] Linux ubuntu 2.6.15-27-386 #1 PREEMPT Sat Sep 16 01:51:59 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux default plugin location: /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-8/*.so (which is I think from the tar you refer to)
Is the 3.9-12 you have a problem with basen on SVN code or something ... I would actually like to try install something later than Oct 2006 if just to test...
Milan
Subbu _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Wednesday 20 February 2008 3:34:55 am Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Is the 3.9-12 you have a problem with basen on SVN code or something ... I would actually like to try install something later than Oct 2006 if just to test...
No. 3.9-12 is from the zip file. I cannot even get the binary to run 'squeak -version'. It collapses when it tries to load libc.so.6. Here is a simple test: $ unzip OLPC-Etoys080211.zip 3.9-12/squeak $ 3.9-12/squeak -version Floating point exception $ rm -f 3.9-12
The version compiled off the olpc/ branch (rev 1816) in svn runs fine on my box. $ bld/squeak 3.9-12 #1 Thu Feb 21 10:34:18 IST 2008 gcc 4.1.2 Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021]
Subbu
On Feb 21, 2008, at 6:18 , K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Wednesday 20 February 2008 3:34:55 am Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Is the 3.9-12 you have a problem with basen on SVN code or something ... I would actually like to try install something later than Oct 2006 if just to test...
No. 3.9-12 is from the zip file. I cannot even get the binary to run 'squeak -version'. It collapses when it tries to load libc.so. 6. Here is a simple test: $ unzip OLPC-Etoys080211.zip 3.9-12/squeak $ 3.9-12/squeak -version Floating point exception $ rm -f 3.9-12
The version compiled off the olpc/ branch (rev 1816) in svn runs fine on my box. $ bld/squeak 3.9-12 #1 Thu Feb 21 10:34:18 IST 2008 gcc 4.1.2 Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021]
The included 3.9-12 VM works fine on Fedora 7.
Yoshiki: I think we need to change a few things in the etoys.sh script:
- set encoding to UTF-8 - provide a sensible SQUEAK_SECUREDIR (~/.etoys?) and SQUEAK_USERDIR (~/Etoys?).
Besides, don't we want to add the browser plugin? And how about supporting a system-wide installation?
Same goes for Windows and Mac, btw. Isn't it time Etoys becomes a "real" application? I mean, no fiddling with images and dropping things onto executables etc. Just double-click and go, saving to a sensible place in the user's documents.
- Bert -
- set encoding to UTF-8
- provide a sensible SQUEAK_SECUREDIR (~/.etoys?) and SQUEAK_USERDIR
(~/Etoys?).
Ok.
Besides, don't we want to add the browser plugin? And how about supporting a system-wide installation?
That would be good. We should test the file structure for it so that we can make installers.
Same goes for Windows and Mac, btw. Isn't it time Etoys becomes a "real" application? I mean, no fiddling with images and dropping things onto executables etc. Just double-click and go, saving to a sensible place in the user's documents.
With an installer, we can do what we used to do with the previous version. But the location of the document can be under the user documents folder, yes.
-- Yoshiki
On Feb 25, 2008, at 22:13 , Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
- set encoding to UTF-8
- provide a sensible SQUEAK_SECUREDIR (~/.etoys?) and SQUEAK_USERDIR
(~/Etoys?).
Ok.
Besides, don't we want to add the browser plugin? And how about supporting a system-wide installation?
That would be good. We should test the file structure for it so that we can make installers.
Same goes for Windows and Mac, btw. Isn't it time Etoys becomes a "real" application? I mean, no fiddling with images and dropping things onto executables etc. Just double-click and go, saving to a sensible place in the user's documents.
With an installer, we can do what we used to do with the previous version. But the location of the document can be under the user documents folder, yes.
Well, on the Mac the Right Thing would be a single .app icon (like Plopp or Sophie).
- Bert -
At Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:54:50 +0530, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Monday 18 February 2008 12:00:11 pm Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
The 3.9-12/squeak binary gives me a "Floating point exception" error on Debian (Etch). A trace showed the fault occuring while loading libc.so.6. Is the code compiled to work only for a specific version of libc6?
VM 3.9-8 (from Squeak-3.9-8.i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz) works fine on the same box.
Anyone else face this error?
Subbu. Sorry, you reported it once before but I just put some wishful thinking and the problem goes away; so it still happens.
A few enhancement since 3.9-8 is nice to have. If the problem is only libc, we might be able to have different versions compiled differently, but this is something we would like to avoid. Hmm.
-- Yoshiki
On Saturday 23 February 2008 5:55:04 am Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Subbu. Sorry, you reported it once before but I just put some wishful thinking and the problem goes away; so it still happens.
A few enhancement since 3.9-8 is nice to have. If the problem is only libc, we might be able to have different versions compiled differently, but this is something we would like to avoid. Hmm.
I would like to avoid such a situation too. I suspect the error could have been introduced by an env setting. Which version of RH was used to compile the binaries?
Subbu
Subbu,
A few enhancement since 3.9-8 is nice to have. If the problem is only libc, we might be able to have different versions compiled differently, but this is something we would like to avoid. Hmm.
I would like to avoid such a situation too. I suspect the error could have been introduced by an env setting. Which version of RH was used to compile the binaries?
That was Fedora Core 7. I didn't have any non-yum RPM packages installed. So, libc or such are just the ones with FC7.
-- Yoshiki
On Wednesday 27 February 2008 11:29:50 pm Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Subbu,
A few enhancement since 3.9-8 is nice to have. If the problem is only libc, we might be able to have different versions compiled differently, but this is something we would like to avoid. Hmm.
I would like to avoid such a situation too. I suspect the error could have been introduced by an env setting. Which version of RH was used to compile the binaries?
That was Fedora Core 7. I didn't have any non-yum RPM packages installed. So, libc or such are just the ones with FC7.
Uh-oh! FC6's gcc introduced a new hash by default in FC6 which results in FP exception on older FC and other linux distributions. If you cannot avoid FC6+, use "-Wl,--hash-style=sysv" or "-Wl,--hash-style=both" to generate compatible executables. The hash-style option is specific to FC6+ and won't be recognized by other gcc so you cannot make a permanent change in the Makefile. You may want to do:
$ make XCFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=sysv" XLDFLAGS="--hash-style=sysv"
To check: $ readelf -l 3.9-12/squeak | grep hash 02 .interp .note.ABI-tag .gnu.hash .dynsym .dynstr ^^^^^^ causes FP exception. $ readelf -l 3.9-12/squeak | grep hash 02 .interp .note.ABI-tag .hash .dynsym .dynstr ^^^^ compatible one
Regards .. Subbu
Uh-oh! FC6's gcc introduced a new hash by default in FC6 which results in FP exception on older FC and other linux distributions. If you cannot avoid FC6+, use "-Wl,--hash-style=sysv" or "-Wl,--hash-style=both" to generate compatible executables. The hash-style option is specific to FC6+ and won't be recognized by other gcc so you cannot make a permanent change in the Makefile. You may want to do:
$ make XCFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=sysv" XLDFLAGS="--hash-style=sysv"
To check: $ readelf -l 3.9-12/squeak | grep hash 02 .interp .note.ABI-tag .gnu.hash .dynsym .dynstr ^^^^^^ causes FP exception. $ readelf -l 3.9-12/squeak | grep hash 02 .interp .note.ABI-tag .hash .dynsym .dynstr ^^^^ compatible one
Ah, it was a completely known problem, then. OLPC's suggested development environment is FC and we are just using it but I didn't know about this. If the binary is fine on XO, probably we can use the option and have less headache.
Thank you!
-- Yoshiki
On Thursday 28 February 2008 1:33:16 pm Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Ah, it was a completely known problem, then. OLPC's suggested development environment is FC and we are just using it but I didn't know about this. If the binary is fine on XO, probably we can use the option and have less headache.
The binary on XO won't be affected. But you may want to update your zip file on tinlizzie with the new binaries so non-XO devs can use a single reference build to test their code.
You may also want to add a README in this directory so devs don't spend time downloading the older zips only to find that it won't run on their box :-(.
Regards, Subbu
On Feb 28, 2008, at 9:03 , Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Uh-oh! FC6's gcc introduced a new hash by default in FC6 which results in FP exception on older FC and other linux distributions. If you cannot avoid FC6+, use "-Wl,--hash-style=sysv" or "-Wl,--hash-style=both" to generate compatible executables. The hash-style option is specific to FC6+ and won't be recognized by other gcc so you cannot make a permanent change in the Makefile. You may want to do:
$ make XCFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=sysv" XLDFLAGS="--hash-style=sysv"
To check: $ readelf -l 3.9-12/squeak | grep hash 02 .interp .note.ABI-tag .gnu.hash .dynsym .dynstr ^^^^^^ causes FP exception. $ readelf -l 3.9-12/squeak | grep hash 02 .interp .note.ABI-tag .hash .dynsym .dynstr ^^^^ compatible one
Ah, it was a completely known problem, then. OLPC's suggested development environment is FC and we are just using it but I didn't know about this. If the binary is fine on XO, probably we can use the option and have less headache.
So we'd need to add "-Wl,--hash-style=both". Can someone think of a way to make AutoConf detect the availability of that option? Maybe via AC_TRY_LINK()?
- Bert -
On Thursday 28 February 2008 2:38:00 pm Bert Freudenberg wrote:
So we'd need to add "-Wl,--hash-style=both". Can someone think of a way to make AutoConf detect the availability of that option? Maybe via AC_TRY_LINK()?
- Bert -
FWIW, attached is a candidate patch for configure.ac. I don't have access to a FC7 box, so I couldn't validate it. The patch should be a no-op for all other environment.
Essentially, the new instructions append hash-style option to CFLAGS and LDFLAGS only on those build platforms where "ld --hash-style=sysv --version" runs without error.
sysv should be sufficient for small programs like squeak. "both" would be an overkill.
Subbu
On Feb 28, 2008, at 15:47 , K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Thursday 28 February 2008 2:38:00 pm Bert Freudenberg wrote:
So we'd need to add "-Wl,--hash-style=both". Can someone think of a way to make AutoConf detect the availability of that option? Maybe via AC_TRY_LINK()?
- Bert -
FWIW, attached is a candidate patch for configure.ac. I don't have access to a FC7 box, so I couldn't validate it. The patch should be a no-op for all other environment.
Essentially, the new instructions append hash-style option to CFLAGS and LDFLAGS only on those build platforms where "ld --hash-style=sysv -- version" runs without error.
sysv should be sufficient for small programs like squeak. "both" would be an overkill.
Subbu <configure.ac.patch>
I committed (a slightly edited version of) this patch to the olpc branch on svn.
Thanks!
- Bert -
Hi, Yoshiki.
I think we want to package also locale plugin with useLocale preference enabled. or is the settings intentional?
/Korakurider
On 2/18/08, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
Hello,
While ago, we made an experimental version of Etoys image based on the OLPC code base but for non-XO environments. We made another iteration of it and upload it to:
http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/OLPC-Etoys080211.zip
The image is based on the latest Etoys image, the suggestions from Subbu about fonts and README wordings are incorporated, and OggPlugin is included. We may still change the initial screen (what do you think if we should start with a screen with clouds or a blank screen?) but the code should be almost in good shape.
Hopefully, this will be the basis for the new version of Squeakland.
For non-English version, the translation need to catch up as we have been changing code in the image, but we can't wait for translations too long. The current plan is that the packages for other languages are made gradually, and in one way or another (replace the file on the squeakland.org or make a web server dedicated for different language community and put the package for it on the server) they will be accessible to the user.
-- Yoshiki _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
I think we want to package also locale plugin with useLocale preference enabled. or is the settings intentional?
In the next round, we should include the translation files (.po files). useLocale is true I think. On my Windows computer, it boots into the platform language.
Thank you!
-- Yoshiki
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 6:02 AM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
I think we want to package also locale plugin with useLocale preference enabled. or is the settings intentional?
In the next round, we should include the translation files (.po files). useLocale is true I think. On my Windows computer, it boots into the platform language.
ok, I come to know this is not just a rename version of legacy win32 vm :-) Then where is source code drop / branch in repo for it and prebuilt distribution? Could you please document it on olpc wiki or squeakvm.org? I would like to review what plugin are included in, tweak some settings for contemporary version of windows, etc...
Cheers, /Korakurider
I think we want to package also locale plugin with useLocale preference enabled. or is the settings intentional?
In the next round, we should include the translation files (.po files). useLocale is true I think. On my Windows computer, it boots into the platform language.
ok, I come to know this is not just a rename version of legacy win32 vm :-) Then where is source code drop / branch in repo for it andprebuilt distribution?
It is stock 3.10.6 VM, but just renamed to etoys.exe. You can binary compare these files if you have doubt^^;
"Smalltalk vmPath" is where I unzipped the zip file, and "Smalltalk listLoadedModules" returns something like:
#('ImmWin32Plugin 7 November 2002 (e)' 'LocalePlugin 1 February 2007 (i)' ...)
Could you please document it on olpc wiki or squeakvm.org? I would like to review what plugin are included in, tweak somesettings for contemporary version of windows, etc...
Documentation is always good. And please experiment. Thank you!
-- Yoshiki
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Dreyfuss Pierre-André (EDU) -
Hilaire Fernandes -
K. K. Subramaniam -
Korakurider -
Milan Zimmermann -
Yoshiki Ohshima