I have completed a first pass over the draft Etoys Reference Manual, adding as much information as I could easily find about Object types, program tiles, tools, menus, and so on, and adding outlines for a chapter on Etoys programming and a Glossary. More information is needed.
I am in a strange position, learning Etoys by writing substantial portions of its Reference Manual, something that I do not think would be possible for any other programming system. I found the early tutorials a delight, up to the point where everything else was completely opaque to me. After learning a bit of Squeak, and getting just a few more hints, I found Etoys starting to make real sense, and now I can use a substantial subset of it. When I get through the parts of this manual that I can do, I will turn to creating Etoys projects to illustrate the issues I found missing, and to take up various education topics. Some will be in the manner of my Turtle Art tutorials and Tony Forster's, but of course Etoys supports doing far more than that.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/TurtleArt/Tutorials
Can anybody help with these Etoys objects that either need explanation or are simply not present in the versions I have access to? In particular, communication between Etoys sessions and users remains entirely opaque to me.
Communications
Attachment Adjuster Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
Objects not found in Object Catalog--Can we remove these?
Calendar Dr. Geo http://www.olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=676.0 Flap Graph Graphing H Number Line Key press Speech Bubbles
Other
Arrow Editor Image How to substitute another image?
Particles What is Kedama? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1092381
Kedama: A GUI-Based Interactive Massively Parallel Particle Programming System http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VLHCC.2005.49 Purchase article: $19
http://community.ofset.org/index.php/Etoys_and_Kedama
I plan to combine redundant accounts of particular features, move a few topics to what seems to me a more logical order, and add some more topics. I especially plan to explain how Etoys development tools work, and how one accesses Squeak development tools from Etoys. A tutorial on either Etoys or Squeak development is, of course, inappropriate for this manual, but I do want to demonstrate how one can look inside Etoys object definitions using Squeak. This question is somewhat confusing, because things may have different names and different structures in their Etoys and Squeak manifestations. Has anybody ever made a tool for exposing the structure of the Squeak definitions of Etoys objects?
Lots more questions to come.
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin mokurai@sugarlabs.org wrote:
I have completed a first pass over the draft Etoys Reference Manual, adding as much information as I could easily find about Object types, program tiles, tools, menus, and so on, and adding outlines for a chapter on Etoys programming and a Glossary. More information is needed.
I am in a strange position, learning Etoys by writing substantial portions of its Reference Manual, something that I do not think would be possible for any other programming system. I found the early tutorials a delight, up to the point where everything else was completely opaque to me. After learning a bit of Squeak, and getting just a few more hints, I found Etoys starting to make real sense, and now I can use a substantial subset of it. When I get through the parts of this manual that I can do, I will turn to creating Etoys projects to illustrate the issues I found missing, and to take up various education topics. Some will be in the manner of my Turtle Art tutorials and Tony Forster's, but of course Etoys supports doing far more than that.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/TurtleArt/Tutorials
Can anybody help with these Etoys objects that either need explanation or are simply not present in the versions I have access to? In particular, communication between Etoys sessions and users remains entirely opaque to me.
Communications
Attachment Adjuster
For connectors.
Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
These are all of a etoys networking experiment. I do not think they are of much use to students unless they are enhanced quite a bit
Objects not found in Object Catalog--Can we remove these?
Calendar
This is a basic calendar. It has a few tiles associated with it
Dr Geo is a whole book of features. http://www.drgeo.eu/
Flap
Flaps are a very useful widget that you can use to hold and hide objects of all sorts. You can have local flaps that hold objects in just the current project ( viewers are local flaps). You can have global flaps that you can access in all projects (the help flap and the 'gold box ' are global flaps). Flaps are basically a PasteUpMorph that can slide in and out from the edge of another PasteUpMorph. You can use the same settings for flap panes as for PasteUpMorphs. Flap tabs can be edited for name and color, edge bevel etc.
Graph Graphing H Number Linecan Key press Speech Bubbles
I do not know much about these objects.
Other
Arrow Editor
This is part of connectors. Could probably be hidden. Quite buggy.
Image How to substitute another image?
Particles What is Kedama? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1092381
Kedama: A GUI-Based Interactive Massively Parallel Particle Programming System http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VLHCC.2005.49 Purchase article: $19
http://community.ofset.org/index.php/Etoys_and_Kedama
I plan to combine redundant accounts of particular features, move a few topics to what seems to me a more logical order, and add some more topics. I especially plan to explain how Etoys development tools work, and how one accesses Squeak development tools from Etoys. A tutorial on either Etoys or Squeak development is, of course, inappropriate for this manual, but I do want to demonstrate how one can look inside Etoys object definitions using Squeak. This question is somewhat confusing, because things may have different names and different structures in their Etoys and Squeak manifestations. Has anybody ever made a tool for exposing the structure of the Squeak definitions of Etoys objects?
Some experiment have been done. Nothing I know of that is 'student ready'.
Lots more questions to come
Sounds great
Karl
.
-- Edward Mokurai (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 1:24 PM, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin mokurai@sugarlabs.org wrote:
I have completed a first pass over the draft Etoys Reference Manual, adding as much information as I could easily find about Object types, program tiles, tools, menus, and so on, and adding outlines for a chapter on Etoys programming and a Glossary. More information is needed.
I am in a strange position, learning Etoys by writing substantial portions of its Reference Manual, something that I do not think would be possible for any other programming system. I found the early tutorials a delight, up to the point where everything else was completely opaque to me. After learning a bit of Squeak, and getting just a few more hints, I found Etoys starting to make real sense, and now I can use a substantial subset of it. When I get through the parts of this manual that I can do, I will turn to creating Etoys projects to illustrate the issues I found missing, and to take up various education topics. Some will be in the manner of my Turtle Art tutorials and Tony Forster's, but of course Etoys supports doing far more than that.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/TurtleArt/Tutorials
Can anybody help with these Etoys objects that either need explanation or are simply not present in the versions I have access to? In particular, communication between Etoys sessions and users remains entirely opaque to me.
Communications
Attachment Adjuster
For connectors.
Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
These are all of a etoys networking experiment. I do not think they are of much use to students unless they are enhanced quite a bit
Objects not found in Object Catalog--Can we remove these?
Calendar
This is a basic calendar. It has a few tiles associated with it
Dr Geo is a whole book of features. http://www.drgeo.eu/
Flap
Flaps are a very useful widget that you can use to hold and hide objects of all sorts. You can have local flaps that hold objects in just the current project ( viewers are local flaps). You can have global flaps that you can access in all projects (the help flap and the 'gold box ' are global flaps). Flaps are basically a PasteUpMorph that can slide in and out from the edge of another PasteUpMorph. You can use the same settings for flap panes as for PasteUpMorphs. Flap tabs can be edited for name and color, edge bevel etc.
To have a "global flap" from the flap menu check "shared by all projects" this can be used to "copy" objects between projects. You need to be careful that whatever objects you copy between projects are "self contained" (ie: do not refer to any other objects, that you do not copy, in any scripts).
Graph Graphing H Number Linecan
Number lines allow you to have an alternate scale for the playfield they are in. For example drag a rectangle into playfield (the world, page in a book, holder or a playfield object) then open its viewer and look at the basic and graphing categories. You will see that "x" and "x on graph" are the same. Next drag in a "Horizontal Number line" (or Verical) and you will see the values for "x on graph change. You can change the "number line" using the number line category in its viewer.
The "X-Y plane" in the Graphing category of the Object Catolog provides a pre-gridded playfield (ctually Graph Paper) with X-Y axis. Get the "X-Y plane"s Halo and click on the Eye dropper to adjust the grid sizes. There are some issues when you adjust the grid sizes and move the Number Lines which I wish were "better integrated" and also the playfield's gridding (from the menu ==> playfield options) is not the same as the gridding used for the "graph paper" lines.
Key press
Key press is used to deal with the problem of handling multiple key presses at the same time. This pops up for kids when they are trying to create multi-player games. Try using "last keystroke" from the input category for two or more keys then press both keys at the same time. Only the last one pressed wins. With Key Press you can detect multiple KeyPresses at the same time (limited I believe by the hardware). To change the key simply click in the white area and then "Press new key". Then to use in a script (with a Test block) go the the "Key Press" objects viewer ==> input category and use [key is pressed] tile. You can also detect how long a key is pressed as well (and reset that value to fire a message every n milli-seconds).
Speech Bubbles
I do not know much about these objects.
Way cool, you should check Ricardo's demo projects. These are similar to Scratch "Say/Think" tiles with the added benefit that they you can embed objects in them (which can also be scripted and thus have animated Speech and Though bubbles.
Other
Arrow Editor
This is part of connectors. Could probably be hidden. Quite buggy.
Image How to substitute another image?
Particles What is Kedama? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1092381
Kedama: A GUI-Based Interactive Massively Parallel Particle Programming
System
http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VLHCC.2005.49 Purchase article: $19
http://community.ofset.org/index.php/Etoys_and_Kedama
I plan to combine redundant accounts of particular features, move a few topics to what seems to me a more logical order, and add some more topics. I especially plan to explain how Etoys development tools work, and how one accesses Squeak development tools from Etoys. A tutorial on either Etoys or Squeak development is, of course, inappropriate for this manual, but I do want to demonstrate how one can look inside Etoys object definitions using Squeak. This question is somewhat confusing, because things may have different names and different structures in their Etoys and Squeak manifestations. Has anybody ever made a tool for exposing the structure of the Squeak definitions of Etoys objects?
Some experiment have been done. Nothing I know of that is 'student ready'.
Lots more questions to come
Sounds great
+1 Thanks for all your efforts. Keep up the good work!!!
Karl
.
-- Edward Mokurai (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
On 2012-09-19, at 19:24, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin mokurai@sugarlabs.org wrote:
Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
These are all of a etoys networking experiment. I do not think they are of much use to students unless they are enhanced quite a bit
They are used in Sugar for collaboration. On other platforms they are too hard to use in a classroom, agreed, because you have to type in IP addresses manually. It would need some equivalent of Sugar's "presence service" to easily connect to peers.
- Bert -
We should look at this :
ftp://swikis.ddo.jp/Discovery/Discovery20080528.sar
Karl
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 2012-09-19, at 19:24, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin mokurai@sugarlabs.org wrote:
Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
These are all of a etoys networking experiment. I do not think they are of much use to students unless they are enhanced quite a bit
They are used in Sugar for collaboration. On other platforms they are too hard to use in a classroom, agreed, because you have to type in IP addresses manually. It would need some equivalent of Sugar's "presence service" to easily connect to peers.
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Here is another network look up service http://www.squeaksource.com/UbiquiTalk.html
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:55 PM, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
We should look at this :
ftp://swikis.ddo.jp/Discovery/Discovery20080528.sar
Karl
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 2012-09-19, at 19:24, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin mokurai@sugarlabs.org wrote:
Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
These are all of a etoys networking experiment. I do not think they are of much use to students unless they are enhanced quite a bit
They are used in Sugar for collaboration. On other platforms they are too hard to use in a classroom, agreed, because you have to type in IP addresses manually. It would need some equivalent of Sugar's "presence service" to easily connect to peers.
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
It would be nice if there was a relay service which could be peer to peer hosted in Etoys (similar to ScratchConnect) but also available through a Cloud based Relay Service so kids could exchange messages (including Morphs) and play together over the internet.
Stephen
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:35 PM, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
Here is another network look up service http://www.squeaksource.com/UbiquiTalk.html
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:55 PM, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
We should look at this :
ftp://swikis.ddo.jp/Discovery/Discovery20080528.sar
Karl
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de
wrote:
On 2012-09-19, at 19:24, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin mokurai@sugarlabs.org wrote:
Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
These are all of a etoys networking experiment. I do not think they are of much use to students unless they are enhanced quite a bit
They are used in Sugar for collaboration. On other platforms they are
too hard to use in a classroom, agreed, because you have to type in IP addresses manually. It would need some equivalent of Sugar's "presence service" to easily connect to peers.
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
On Sep 19, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin wrote:
I have completed a first pass over the draft Etoys Reference Manual, adding as much information as I could easily find about Object types, program tiles, tools, menus, and so on, and adding outlines for a chapter on Etoys programming and a Glossary. More information is needed.
The chapter of Etoys programming should be part of another book, not of the reference manual. The manual is thought of as a technical reference book, where you can find bits of information, but not much prose. Also, the manual can be used as a check list: for users of what to find in Etoys, for developers what needs to be maintained, for beta testers what should still work in a new version. We need the explanation chapters very much, maybe even more than the manual. But it should not be mixed up.
I am in a strange position, learning Etoys by writing substantial portions of its Reference Manual, something that I do not think would be possible for any other programming system. I found the early tutorials a delight, up to the point where everything else was completely opaque to me. After learning a bit of Squeak, and getting just a few more hints, I found Etoys starting to make real sense, and now I can use a substantial subset of it. When I get through the parts of this manual that I can do, I will turn to creating Etoys projects to illustrate the issues I found missing, and to take up various education topics. Some will be in the manner of my Turtle Art tutorials and Tony Forster's, but of course Etoys supports doing far more than that.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/TurtleArt/Tutorials
Can anybody help with these Etoys objects that either need explanation or are simply not present in the versions I have access to? In particular, communication between Etoys sessions and users remains entirely opaque to me.
Communications
Attachment Adjuster Badge Fridge NebraskaServer
Objects not found in Object Catalog--Can we remove these?
Calendar Dr. Geo http://www.olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=676.0 Flap Graph Graphing H Number Line Key press Speech Bubbles
I've started to make a note if objects are available in later version only, the calendar, for instance, is in Etoys 5.0.
Other
Arrow Editor Image How to substitute another image?
I think you just need to remove the old image, make a new screenshot and upload it using the insert image symbol.
Particles What is Kedama? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1092381
Kedama: A GUI-Based Interactive Massively Parallel Particle Programming System http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/VLHCC.2005.49 Purchase article: $19
This should be another book, maybe part of the programming etoys book.
I plan to combine redundant accounts of particular features, move a few topics to what seems to me a more logical order, and add some more topics.
We should discuss that. We had two book sprints when we started writing the manual and discussed its structure. The manual is 3/4 done, I would prefer not to open up more topics here and not to change basic things of the structure. But I would love to discuss this, because the manual should be a guide for users and if it is not helpful, we need to make it better.
I especially plan to explain how Etoys development tools work, and how one accesses Squeak development tools from Etoys.
This is something we have often talked about, but not written down. Needs to be part of the Etoys programming book!
A tutorial on either Etoys or Squeak development is, of course, inappropriate for this manual, but I do want to demonstrate how one can look inside Etoys object definitions using Squeak.
It is the Etoys manual and the transition is not on the focus. Therefore, if it should be part of this manual, I would like to put it in an appendix.
This question is somewhat confusing, because things may have different names and different structures in their Etoys and Squeak manifestations. Has anybody ever made a tool for exposing the structure of the Squeak definitions of Etoys objects?
Lots more questions to come.
-- Edward Mokurai (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Rita Freudenberg rita.freudenberg@ovgu.de
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Edward Mokurai Cherlin -
karl ramberg -
Rita Freudenberg -
Steve Thomas