etoys-dev January 2010

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No dev meeting today unless ...
by Bert Freudenberg 18 Jan '10

18 Jan '10

... someone has something urgent to resolve? Tim is not going to attend (today is MLK Day in the US). - Bert -

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[RELEASE] Etoys 4.0.2340
by Bert Freudenberg 18 Jan '10

18 Jan '10

To take up less space on machines with a non-compressing file system (i.e., about anything except XO-1, but in particular the XO-1.5) this version uses a compressed sources file (before: 18 MB, now: 4.5 MB). == Sources == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/etoys/etoys-4.0.2340.… http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Etoys/Etoys-114.tar.… == Packaged for OLPC XO == http://etoys.laptop.org/rpms/etoys-4.0.2340-1.noarch.rpm http://etoys.laptop.org/rpms/Etoys-114.xo == Changes since 4.0.2339 == 4.0.2340 (17 Jan 2010) * use compressed sources file (EtoysV4.stc) - Bert -

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Compressing sources
by Bert Freudenberg 18 Jan '10

18 Jan '10

Maybe someone can help with http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-647 This is what led to it: [23:15:52] <Mitch_Bradley> bertf: ping [23:16:08] <bertf> Mitch_Bradley: pong [23:16:32] <Mitch_Bradley> we are looking at disk-space-saving opportunities [23:16:41] <Mitch_Bradley> I want to ask about etoys possibilities [23:16:53] <bertf> Mitch_Bradley: for 1.5? [23:17:03] <Mitch_Bradley> Could /usr/share/etoys/EtoysV4.sources be compressed? [23:17:07] <Mitch_Bradley> yes, for 1.5 [23:17:41] <bertf> I thought that had larger disk than before? [23:17:48] <Mitch_Bradley> it does [23:18:04] <bertf> can't be compressed easily, no [23:18:13] <Mitch_Bradley> and that fact is being used by *everybody* as a justification for pissing it all away [23:18:26] <bertf> understood [23:18:46] <Mitch_Bradley> under what circumstances is .sources used, as opposed to .image [23:19:17] <bertf> whenever you look at the source code. the image stores file offsets [23:19:22] <Mitch_Bradley> how about decompress-on-first-use? [23:19:33] <bertf> can't write there [23:20:07] <bertf> there was a hack once allowing to compress it. not sure how stable that is [23:22:04] <bertf> I'll try to find that hack [23:23:57] <Mitch_Bradley> how about locales - could we prune /usr/share/etoys/locales ? [23:25:08] <Mitch_Bradley> it is ironic that smalltalk is so large [23:25:44] <Mitch_Bradley> not as ironic as "Micro"soft, though [23:27:33] <bertf> well if you're sure that some locale is not needed, you can just delete the .mo file, yes [23:34:03] <Mitch_Bradley> decompressing EtoysV4.sources.gz to ram takes 0.7 seconds. [23:35:51] <bertf> not bad :) [00:01:04] <bertf> Mitch_Bradley: I found the sources hack http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3510 in what time frame would we have to incorporate that? [00:02:36] <Mitch_Bradley> bertf: I don't know what our current release train looks like, but I think that we would probably want to fold in the space-saving change whenever it is available. [00:03:05] <bertf> Mitch_Bradley: when would it be too late? [00:03:32] <cjb> bertf: within 7 days should be ok [00:04:41] <bertf> cjb: okay. can't promise anything but I'll see what I can do. or get someone to do. [00:04:49] <Mitch_Bradley> thanks! - Bert -

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Re: [squeak-dev] Compressed sources
by David T. Lewis 15 Jan '10

15 Jan '10

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 03:30:48PM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > The compression appears to work fine but it actually does not correctly deal with Unicode characters. I added a fix at > > http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-647 > Maybe my fix for Etoys works in trunk too? Bert, It works fine. I just added your change set to Squeak trunk. Thanks, Dave

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Etoys versions in Sugar
by Bert Freudenberg 12 Jan '10

12 Jan '10

Sugar 0.87: etoys 4.0.2339 (dev only, becomes 0.88 stable) XO-1.5 (F11): etoys 4.0.2339 XO-1 (F11): etoys 4.0.2339 (unofficial project) Squeakland: etoys 4.0.2336 SoaS Blueberry: etoys 4.0.2332 Sugar 0.86.2: etoys 4.0.2332 (current stable Sugar release) Sugar 0.86.1: etoys 4.0.2326 Sugar 0.86: etoys 4.0.2319 SoaS Strawberry: etoys 4.0.2212 (?) Sugar 0.84: etoys 4.0.2206 XO-1 (8.2.1): etoys 4.0.2205 XO-1 (8.2): etoys 3.0.2153 source: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/0.87.2_Notes http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/0.87.1_Notes http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/0.86.2_Notes http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/0.86.1_Notes http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Notes#Getting_the_sources http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.84/Notes#Getting_the_sources http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Etoys#Version_history - Bert -

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Fwd: [ANNOUNCE] 0.88 Schedule Adjustment
by Bert Freudenberg 12 Jan '10

12 Jan '10

FYI - Bert - Begin forwarded message: > > From: Simon Schampijer <simon(a)schampijer.de> > Date: 12. Januar 2010 09:03:19 MEZ > To: Sugar-dev <Sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org> > Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] 0.88 Schedule Adjustment > > Hi, > > in order to reflect the current 0.88 Feature Situation the 0.88 schedule > [1] has been adjusted. Basically the API/ABI, Feature, UI and String > Freeze have been delayed by one week. Features are accepted one more > week, too. The Hard code Freeze stays the 15th of March and the final > release date is still valid. > > These are the new dates: > > * Feature Acceptance - Jan 18 > Acceptance of the features following the Features/Policy [2]. Features > for the 0.88 release has to be proposed until that date. > > * API/ABI Freeze - Jan 25 > API/ABI Freeze for 0.87.x Developer APIs should be frozen at this point. > If your Feature does add new API it has to be landed before that date > (or at least the relevant part of the code). > > * Feature Freeze - Feb 01 > No new features will be accepted for this release period. "Feature" > should be interpreted as "Functionality" or "Ability". Bug fixes of > existing features are not affected. > > * UI Freeze - Feb 15 > No UI changes may be made without approval from the release-team and > notification to the documentation list. > > * String Freeze - Mar 01 > No string changes may be made without confirmation from the localization > team and notification to both the release team and the documentation list. > > > Please be aware of these dates and coordinate your work accordingly. If > you have a Feature containing API changes you should land that first. > Smaller UI changes that are no Features can still be done after the > Features have been landed. > > Regards, > Simon > > [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Roadmap#Schedule > [2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Policy > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel(a)lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

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Exporting sounds and images from Etoys projects
by Bert Freudenberg 10 Jan '10

10 Jan '10

On 10.01.2010, at 02:51, Bryan Berry wrote: > Bert, we did have Squeak programmers but they all emigrated and are difficult to get in touch with. Oh, didn't know they were all gone. I sat down and wrote a script myself. It's somewhat specific to your Squeak image/projects but I'll cc etoys-dev anyway, maybe it's useful to someone. I used the image and projects from http://karma.sugarlabs.org/Squeak.tar.bz2 The attached script needs a bit of hand-holding when running inside Squeak. Or just download the assets I exported: http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/OLENepalSqueakAssets.zip Beware, it's 125 MB of PNGs and WAVs. The sounds have their names preserved, but the images are just enumerated largest-to-smallest. I didn't bother to check for duplicates. - Bert - On 10.01.2010, at 02:51, Bryan Berry wrote: > Bert, we did have Squeak programmers but they all emigrated and are difficult to get in touch with. > > I will bother Surendra, who you met, to see if he can help > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de> wrote: > Well, OLE Nepal does have Squeak programmers, and it should be rather simple for them to write a snippet that exports images and sounds from a loaded project. > > It's just a bit harder (but I guess not too much) to load each project in a folder and export assets found there (the trick would be to just load the project but not enter it). > > Extracting them without Squeak is rather infeasible. > > - Bert - > > On 09.01.2010, at 16:39, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > > > > Adding sugar-devel to CC in case Bert wants to say anything > > > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 16:36, Peter Gijsels <peter.gijsels(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Vaibhaw, > >> > >> You seem to imply that there is a (difficult) way to extract them, > >> could you elaborate? > >> > >> Do you think it would be useful to have a simple way to extract these > >> assets from a .pr file? > >> > >> I can try to see if I can come up with something. I'm not guaranteeing > >> anything, but I think it might be worth a shot. I think it would be > >> more fun than cropping screenshots. ;-) > >> > >> I have two possible approaches in mind: > >> 1) There is probably a central place where the .pr is being read in > >> and Morph objects are being constructed. If we intercept objects of > >> the correct type we can dump their image data to a file. The trick is > >> to find the code that does the deserializing which can be rather > >> frustrating in Smalltalk if you are not familiar with the code. > >> > >> 2) The second approach would be to just walk over all objects, see if > >> they are an image, and dump them to files. > >> > >> Do you have a Squeak development image (with development tools like > >> the browser and inspector) from which I can read in these .pr files so > >> that I can poke around a bit? > >> > >> Regards, > >> Peter > >> > >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Vaibhaw (Bob) Poddar > >> <vaibhawp(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>> Afraid not. There is no (easy) way to extract the info from the .pr files. I > >>> have been just cropping the images out from the screen shots so far. > >>> > >>> Vaibhaw (Bob) Poddar > >>> > >>> Nepal Cell. +977.98510.61345 > >>> India Cell. +91.99999.15661 > >>> US of A Cell. +1.415.508.4503 > >>> > >>> http://HimalayanTechies.com > >>> > >>> On 1/9/2010 7:43 PM, Peter Gijsels wrote: > >>> > >>> Bryan, Vaibhaw, > >>> > >>> I've got epaath working on my windows machine. > >>> > >>> Do I understand correctly that all of the materials of a lesson are > >>> contained in one .pr file, e.g. 6_English_actionVerb_3.018.pr? The > >>> epaath.image running on the squeak vm loads in that file. > >>> > >>> Is there an easy way to extract the pictures and sounds from the .pr > >>> file of the lesson? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Vaibhaw (Bob) Poddar > >>> <vaibhawp(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Step to get Squeak working on a Windows machine (not sure how on a Linux > >>> distribution). > >>> > >>> Download and install squeak > >>> http://www.squeakland.org/download/ > >>> > >>> Replace the etoys.image inside the Etoys/Etyos.app/Contents/Resources with > >>> the image file from the E-Paath. > >>> > >>> That should be it. If you run into any issues I would be happy to look at > >>> that. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Vaibhaw (Bob) Poddar > >>> > >>> Nepal Cell. +977.98510.61345 > >>> India Cell. +91.99999.15661 > >>> US of A Cell. +1.415.508.4503 > >>> > >>> http://HimalayanTechies.com > >>> > >>> On 1/7/2010 7:44 AM, Bryan Berry wrote: > >>> > >>> here is the file http://karma.sugarlabs.org/Squeak.tar.bz2 > >>> > >>> These are all the Squeak files in the current EPaath. I am not sure how to > >>> actually view the individual projects. > >>> Vaibhaw: how do we do that? My Squeak skills are rusty > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Bryan Berry <bryan(a)olenepal.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> hey Peter, > >>> first could u use pastie.org or jsbin.com for small code samples? makes it > >>> easier for everyone to view and comment on your code > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Peter Gijsels <peter.gijsels(a)gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> On an unrelated note, did you have time to prepare a download link > >>> with the Squeak stuff? Tomorrow evening I have some time to have a > >>> look at it. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> > >>> Sorry I uploaded most of the files but forget to upload one important > >>> file, the squeak image ;). I will upload that now and send you the link > >>> shortly > >>>

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wiki password recovery ?
by Karl Ramberg 07 Jan '10

07 Jan '10

Hi, i lost my password to wiki.squeakland.org How can I get it back ? I tried to mail it to me, but I get no mail ... Karl

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Etoys: toolbar
by Bert Freudenberg 07 Jan '10

07 Jan '10

On 06.01.2010, at 11:54, Simon Schampijer wrote: > > Hi, > > Some thoughts that came up today - I will turn into bugs or discard > after feedback. > > Is there a reason the etoys save a copy (keep as) button is not colored > like in other activities? The toolbar is using bitmapped icons, so recoloring is harder. Not impossible though - like, when sharing, the joining buddy's XO icon gets colorized because it uses a vector renderer. > Is there a reason the stop button is not the most right one like in > other activities? The "toolbar toggle" button was added in the last version and it seemed to make most sense on the far right. Might be going to change though - there is a related ticket you could comment on: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-470 > The secondary options of the buttons in the toolbar have different ways > of accessing. > - the load from server/save to server is accessed by holding the mouse > button pressed longer > - the share button opens the options after one click > - the store/lager opens other options after one click (the secondary > toolbar has a different layout than the share options) There are no hover-palettes in Etoys. The long-click to reveal "hidden" save and load options predates Sugar. Same for the Supplies flap, which explains its look. The only new thing is the share button's menu, which was made to look similar to the regular Sugar palettes. Now that you point it out it does indeed feel inconsistent compared to other activities. A ticket may be in order (though I have no real idea how to solve it). - Bert -

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Re: Collaboration for Etoys
by Steve Thomas 07 Jan '10

07 Jan '10

Karl, This would be great, as I understand what you are trying to do, it involves screen sharing and object sharing/communicating across computers. The ability for a teacher/student to see a 'History" of what they have done and as an alternative/replacement for Event Theater. Something akin to a background screen capture that can replay what the user did. See SQ-571 for more ideas on what I am looking for. Also, could NetMorph, also be used to have a "repository" of objects/scripts that can be pulled into a project? Similar to Scratch's "choose a new sprite from file". Ideally with some kind of information to let teacher's know if the student's created the object themselves or got it from a repository or another student. This would help solve the following problems: 1. Some students aren't confident in their drawing abilities, so having pre-drawn objects would help them (ie: lower the floor). They have a great idea, but stop because they feel they can't draw the objects or animations. 2. I create an object and associated variables/scripts to do something (stop all playing sounds, create a bar graph, plot a function, capture keyboard input and set variables for game control, define a capture user input object and scripts, etc) and want to re-use them in other projects. But currently I have to re-open the project or projects and drag them into the supplies bin each time to "copy" them between projects. Thanks, Stephen > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:35:52 +0100 > From: Karl Ramberg <karlramberg(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [etoys-dev] Collaboration for Etoys > To: etoys dev <etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org> > Message-ID: <4B3F9208.4070106(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > I have been looking at the NetMorph image and its collaboration tool and > it does what its does quite well. > I have not been able to load the NetMorph package from SqueakMap into > the Etoys image, > there are some conflicts in translation tools I have not figured out yet... > > But, before going further with NetMorphs I thought it would be good to > have a idea about what we want the > collaboration tools to achieve. > What should/would the collaboration be like, what kind of environment do > we want to provide. > I think it would be nice if we could build a BookMorph like/Project/Wiki > like environment where we have the full Etoys environment and versioning > per page. > > What are the use cases for collaboration ? > - Teacher showing projects to: > - one student > - group of students > - whole class > - Teacher monitoring / eavesdropping / helping ? > - one student > - group of students > - whole class > -Students showing others stuff > - one student > - group of students > - whole class > - Students working on projects together > - two students > - group of students > - whole class > > Setting up groups and administrate parts of network. > > > > Here are links to two collaboration systems: > > SeeThroughTalk , shared screen development > http://swikis.ddo.jp/SeeThroughTalk > NetMorphs where you send morphs to each other > http://swikis.ddo.jp/NetMorph > > Karl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > > End of etoys-dev Digest, Vol 41, Issue 2 > **************************************** >

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etoys-dev January 2010