K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
Karl
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
That is very nice. Makes me want more etoy access to the FM synth and other sound tools.
So what we have is a morph that changes pitch according to size, but how could we represent all the other parameters ? Attack, sustain, drop off, volume, sound length, wave form etc. This needs some thinking... It is easy to be overwhelmed by this. We don't want the sound interface to be like the synths back in the 70th where you had a big switch board and dozens of knobs and cords etc... At least not as a first impression :-)
If we used TamTam instruments would we have to drop out of Squeak to edit the sounds ? Should we present the instruments in the drop down list of sounds we have now ? Should the sounds be included in projects to be portable ?
There is a lot to think about :-)
Karl
Bert, the etoy you attached to your previous mail is fabulous; as best as I can tell, it demonstrates what Karl has been suggesting in his mails. From my point of view, it would be nice if
1. more tile scripting options existed for sounds (simple transformations that could be applied ....) 2. something such as a sound holder or some other collection mechanism existed (maybe it already does?)
As best as I can tell, sound can (obviously) be scripted in response to morphic events.
I'm still wondering if morph events can be scripted in response to conditions that exist in a sound? For example, is a sound file ended, can a player then change its costume?
Is there any documentation on the web or elsewhere about extending the tile system? Or (my guess) is documentation mostly the class comments, etc. in Etoys?
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
polishookm wrote:
Bert, the etoy you attached to your previous mail is fabulous; as best as I can tell, it demonstrates what Karl has been suggesting in his mails. From my point of view, it would be nice if
- more tile scripting options existed for sounds (simple
transformations that could be applied ....) 2. something such as a sound holder or some other collection mechanism existed (maybe it already does?)
As best as I can tell, sound can (obviously) be scripted in response to morphic events.
I'm still wondering if morph events can be scripted in response to conditions that exist in a sound? For example, is a sound file ended, can a player then change its costume?
Is there any documentation on the web or elsewhere about extending the tile system? Or (my guess) is documentation mostly the class comments, etc. in Etoys?
I don't know of any documentation but take a look at the attached change set that adds tile scripting to StarMorphs. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.
Karl
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
'From etoys3.0 of 24 February 2008 [latest update: #1985] on 26 April 2008 at 5:34:59 pm'! "Change Set: StarMorphScripting Date: 26 April 2008 Author: Karl Ramberg
Adds two scripting access points to StarMorphs."!
!Player methodsFor: 'vertices operation' stamp: 'kfr 4/26/2008 17:22'! getStarRatio ^ (self costume starRatio * 100) rounded! !
!Player methodsFor: 'vertices operation' stamp: 'kfr 4/26/2008 17:27'! setStarRatio: aInteger | int float | int := aInteger min: 100 max: 1. float := (100 / int) asFloat. ^ self costume starRatio: float! !
!Player methodsFor: 'vertices operation' stamp: 'kfr 4/26/2008 17:09'! setVerticesCount: aInteger | verticesCount int | verticesCount := self getVerticesCount. int := aInteger. aInteger > verticesCount ifTrue: [int even ifFalse: [int := int + 1]. self costume makeVertices: int] ifFalse: [int even ifFalse: [int := int - 1 max:4]. self costume makeVertices: int]! !
!StarMorph class methodsFor: 'scripting' stamp: 'kfr 4/26/2008 17:31'! additionsToViewerCategories "Answer a list of (<categoryName> <list of category specs>) pairs that characterize the phrases this kind of morph wishes to add to various Viewer categories."
^ # (
(star (
(slot verticesCount 'How many vertices are within me' Number readWrite Player getVerticesCount Player setVerticesCount:) (slot starRatio 'How long vertices are within me' Number readWrite Player getStarRatio Player setStarRatio:)
))
)! !
!StarMorph class reorganize! ('parts bin' descriptionForPartsBin) ('class initialization' initialize registerInFlapsRegistry unload) ('scripting' additionsToViewerCategories) !
Thanks Karl. Questions probably soon to follow ....
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
Bert, the etoy you attached to your previous mail is fabulous; as best as I can tell, it demonstrates what Karl has been suggesting in his mails. From my point of view, it would be nice if
- more tile scripting options existed for sounds (simple
transformations that could be applied ....) 2. something such as a sound holder or some other collection mechanism existed (maybe it already does?)
As best as I can tell, sound can (obviously) be scripted in response to morphic events.
I'm still wondering if morph events can be scripted in response to conditions that exist in a sound? For example, is a sound file ended, can a player then change its costume?
Is there any documentation on the web or elsewhere about extending the tile system? Or (my guess) is documentation mostly the class comments, etc. in Etoys?
I don't know of any documentation but take a look at the attached change set that adds tile scripting to StarMorphs. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.
Karl
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
Karl, Thanks for attaching the changeset with the StarMorph tile additions. I'm more than a little amazed. As best as I can tell from code, defining and adding new tiles is as simple as
1. Add an 'additionsToViewerCategories' as needed 2. Add a method or methods to Player to account for whatever is in the 'additionsToViewerCategories' method.
To test, I added 2 more tiles to the changeset:
" 1 " (command openTranscript 'Show a transcript?') " 2 " (slot starRatioReloaded 'How long vertices are within me' Number readWrite Player setStarRatio: Player getStarRatio)
.... The 2nd tile, obviously, is almost identical to one of the tiles you've already defined ...
.... So 'command' refers to a message that will be sent to Player - which means Player has to know how to respond to that message (in this case, Player requires an 'openTranscript' method).
'slot' defines an instance variable. In this case, 'Number readWrite' means the inst var will be a number with get/set access which, in turn, means corresponding get/set methods in Player (as per your changeset) have to exist.
My questions are:
(1) am I stating this all correctly? (2) is 'additionToViewerCategory' used anywhere in the system?
* * * * * * * " From Morph additionsToViewerCategories " Subclasses that have additions can either: - override this method, or - (preferably) define one or more additionToViewerCategory* methods. * * * * * * *
Anything else you might add in the way of advice?
Thanks in advance for all further information and thanks one more time for demonstrating how easily tiles can be added.
Ab,
Mark
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
Bert, the etoy you attached to your previous mail is fabulous; as best as I can tell, it demonstrates what Karl has been suggesting in his mails. From my point of view, it would be nice if
- more tile scripting options existed for sounds (simple
transformations that could be applied ....) 2. something such as a sound holder or some other collection mechanism existed (maybe it already does?)
As best as I can tell, sound can (obviously) be scripted in response to morphic events.
I'm still wondering if morph events can be scripted in response to conditions that exist in a sound? For example, is a sound file ended, can a player then change its costume?
Is there any documentation on the web or elsewhere about extending the tile system? Or (my guess) is documentation mostly the class comments, etc. in Etoys?
I don't know of any documentation but take a look at the attached change set that adds tile scripting to StarMorphs. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.
Karl
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
polishookm wrote:
Karl, Thanks for attaching the changeset with the StarMorph tile additions. I'm more than a little amazed. As best as I can tell from code, defining and adding new tiles is as simple as
- Add an 'additionsToViewerCategories' as needed
- Add a method or methods to Player to account for whatever is in the
'additionsToViewerCategories' method.
To test, I added 2 more tiles to the changeset:
" 1 " (command openTranscript 'Show a transcript?') " 2 " (slot starRatioReloaded 'How long vertices are within me' Number readWrite Player setStarRatio: Player getStarRatio)
.... The 2nd tile, obviously, is almost identical to one of the tiles you've already defined ...
.... So 'command' refers to a message that will be sent to Player - which means Player has to know how to respond to that message (in this case, Player requires an 'openTranscript' method).
And Player usually passes the message on to the player costume, so you have to know the internals of the costume to know what messages it have implemented. Costume is most usually a subclass of morph.
Sound is unusual as it does not have a morphic costume and the only visual representation is tiles.
'slot' defines an instance variable. In this case, 'Number readWrite' means the inst var will be a number with get/set access which, in turn, means corresponding get/set methods in Player (as per your changeset) have to exist.
My questions are:
(1) am I stating this all correctly? (2) is 'additionToViewerCategory' used anywhere in the system?
" From Morph additionsToViewerCategories " Subclasses that have additions can either: - override this method, or - (preferably) define one or more additionToViewerCategory* methods.
Anything else you might add in the way of advice?
I recommend playing around and testing stuff. Ask questions here and if you could document stuff you learn it would be great :-)
Thanks in advance for all further information and thanks one more time for demonstrating how easily tiles can be added.
Its easy to add the scripts for most stuff. I spend most of the time understanding the internals of the morph I want to script, like finding the access point and what kind of data types are sent.
Karl
Ab,
Mark
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
Bert, the etoy you attached to your previous mail is fabulous; as best as I can tell, it demonstrates what Karl has been suggesting in his mails. From my point of view, it would be nice if
- more tile scripting options existed for sounds (simple
transformations that could be applied ....) 2. something such as a sound holder or some other collection mechanism existed (maybe it already does?)
As best as I can tell, sound can (obviously) be scripted in response to morphic events.
I'm still wondering if morph events can be scripted in response to conditions that exist in a sound? For example, is a sound file ended, can a player then change its costume?
Is there any documentation on the web or elsewhere about extending the tile system? Or (my guess) is documentation mostly the class comments, etc. in Etoys?
I don't know of any documentation but take a look at the attached change set that adds tile scripting to StarMorphs. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.
Karl
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 07.05.2008, at 09:38, karl wrote:
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 11:49:02 pm you wrote:
> There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music > environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully > designed. > > > An interesting application of sound tiles for learning is seen in
http://www.ccd.rpi.edu/Eglash/csdt/latino/rhythm/rhy_intr.htm
It illustrates how units of sounds can be combined using simple algebras to produce rhythms. In the process, children get to learn about similarity, repetitions, multiples and so on.
Regards .. Subbu
Thats really cool. You can kind of do the same with the Sound SequencerMorph, in a linear fashion. And the UI should be cleaned up a little.
I made an Etoy a while ago, see attachment. Drag the yellow "notes" off the circle, and resize them to change pitch. Now, what would be really cool if we could make this use an instrument instead of the simple sine wave ...
The same thing should be doable with percussions, just drop some sampled sounds into the world.
On the XO it would be great to use TamTam instruments. We have OSC for Squeak ...
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org