From the point of view of an end-user and using a fresh install
(etoys-image-and-pr-080708): Opening to the default project and clicking "previous project" takes the user to the "Unnamed1" project (actually the root project). How then do they get back to the default project? Seems impossible without advanced knowledge but am I missing something obvious?
Also, is there an on-line searchable version of this list?
At Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:20:03 +0100, Derek O'Connell wrote:
From the point of view of an end-user and using a fresh install (etoys-image-and-pr-080708): Opening to the default project and clicking "previous project" takes the user to the "Unnamed1" project (actually the root project). How then do they get back to the default project? Seems impossible without advanced knowledge but am I missing something obvious?
If you're running Etoys on Sugar, the previous project button is smart enough not to go beyond the default project. It could be the same on the other platforms.
Also, is there an on-line searchable version of this list?
"This list" means the Etoys list (etoys@lists.laptop.org)? Then,
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/
is it.
-- Yoshiki
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
At Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:20:03 +0100, Derek O'Connell wrote:
From the point of view of an end-user and using a fresh install (etoys-image-and-pr-080708): Opening to the default project and clicking "previous project" takes the user to the "Unnamed1" project (actually the root project). How then do they get back to the default project? Seems impossible without advanced knowledge but am I missing something obvious?
Derek, The distribution is configured for Sugar platform that has only one button for project navigation. The same image can be configured as appropriate for use on other platforms (i.e. Squeakland Etoys, aka: Squeakland OLPC) that have prev/next buttons for navigating projects. I don't know how to configure it, Yoshiki could explain... It will be released in near future, while right now older version is still available (http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2008-May/002307.html).
If you're running Etoys on Sugar, the previous project button is smart enough not to go beyond the default project. It could be the same on the other platforms.
Yoshiki, I can reproduce this by just opening the latest bit downloaded today on Windows box. You could check it.
Cheers, /Korakurider
Also, is there an on-line searchable version of this list?
"This list" means the Etoys list (etoys@lists.laptop.org)? Then,
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/
is it.
-- Yoshiki _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
At Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:57:03 +0900, Korakurider wrote:
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
At Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:20:03 +0100, Derek O'Connell wrote:
From the point of view of an end-user and using a fresh install (etoys-image-and-pr-080708): Opening to the default project and clicking "previous project" takes the user to the "Unnamed1" project (actually the root project). How then do they get back to the default project? Seems impossible without advanced knowledge but am I missing something obvious?
Derek, The distribution is configured for Sugar platform that has only one button for project navigation. The same image can be configured as appropriate for use on other platforms (i.e. Squeakland Etoys, aka: Squeakland OLPC) that have prev/next buttons for navigating projects. I don't know how to configure it, Yoshiki could explain...
All I do is to evaluate
ReleaseBuilderSqueakland new prepareReleaseImageForSqueakland
and
ReleaseBuilderSqueakland new buildInitialScreenForSqueakland
in a fully-updated image located in the SVN repository. The screen size is more or less manually set.
It will be released in near future, while right now older version is still available (http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2008-May/002307.html).
Sorry for the delay. We are getting there.
If you're running Etoys on Sugar, the previous project button is smart enough not to go beyond the default project. It could be the same on the other platforms.
Yoshiki, I can reproduce this by just opening the latest bit downloaded today on Windows box. You could check it.
Sure. As I wrote, it behaves differently on whether it is running on Sugar or not. "it could be" means "it isn't", but probabably it should be "it is".
-- Yoshiki
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008 1:50:03 pm Derek O'Connell wrote:
From the point of view of an end-user and using a fresh install (etoys-image-and-pr-080708): Opening to the default project and clicking "previous project" takes the user to the "Unnamed1" project (actually the root project). How then do they get back to the default project? Seems impossible without advanced knowledge but am I missing something obvious?
Alt-, (comma) and then use the projects .. submenu.
You may be using an image that is used to build release images for XO (OLPC) or Squeakland. The end-user images will have both prev/next buttons. e.g. http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/Squeakland-OLPC-080512.zip
Also, is there an on-line searchable version of this list?
Not that I am aware of. The list is not yet indexed in gmane or nabble. You could try searching with google with inurl: or site: modifiers.
HTH .. Subbu
Thanks all for the replies. About searchable list (scratches head) I had tried googling using "site:lists.laptop.org" in the past but did not get results from the actual Etoys list. I do now so thanks for the reminder.
For background info: for several months I have restricted myself to Etoys and tile-based scripting to get a better appreciation of Etoys myself but also to gain some perspective on what an end-user/ non-programmer (child/ parent/ teacher) may experience and especially the problems they may encounter. So while I personally can find my way around most problems I usually call a halt where I think a newcomer may get completely stuck. I started this exercise using the image from http://etoys.laptop.org/src/etoys-dev.zip and pull down updates on a regular basis. I chose this one assuming it best represented any future public release (sans example projects) and to avoid posting bug reports on things that may already have been fixed. A count today reveals my image contains 51 projects about 2/3 of which are specifically for investigating various aspects of Morphs/EToy/scripting.
I am running on winxp with a 3.10.2 (alpha) vm, don't have access to an XO and assuming that the Etoys image will eventually be hw/os agnostic... all of which should have been stated in my original post, sry!
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
If you're running Etoys on Sugar, the previous project button is smart enough not to go beyond the default project. It could be the same on the other platforms.
I have checked again and the problem only exists in the original image from etoys-image-and-pr.zip. With updates the button alternates between the default project and the last project entered. This makes sense but of out interest why can the root project not be the default?
At Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:57:03 +0900, Korakurider wrote:
Derek, The distribution is configured for Sugar platform that has only one button for project navigation. The same image can be configured as appropriate for use on other platforms (i.e. Squeakland Etoys, aka: Squeakland OLPC) that have prev/next buttons for navigating projects. I don't know how to configure it, Yoshiki could explain...
I can appreciate the simplicity of the single button approach.
It will be released in near future, while right now older version is still available (http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2008-May/002307.html).
Ah yes, I downloaded this when it was posted and many thanks to those working on it. One thing I did notice was the absence of the project name in the nav bar. Is this to return in the next version? Should I be pulling down updates for it or waiting for the next release?
Is it right to assume that this release and the reference to SqueakLand implies that OLPC Etoys *is* going platform agnostic? In which case will references to "sugar" be renamed? I ask this out of ignorance of how exactly Etoys interacts with Sugar. I should make amends but since I don't ever expect to own an XO it would be a distraction.
As an aside: I did plan to migrate to that release but discovered problems saving/loading projects which contain child projects (in etoys-dev).
Subbu wrote:
Alt-, (comma) and then use the projects .. submenu.
Thanks. I failed to make it clear in my original post that I was considering the problem (now solved) from the perspective of a newcomer, perhaps a child being isolated from complicated key combo's and menus.
At Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:51:02 +0100, Derek O'Connell wrote:
Thanks all for the replies. About searchable list (scratches head) I had tried googling using "site:lists.laptop.org" in the past but did not get results from the actual Etoys list. I do now so thanks for the reminder.
If your emailer allows you to see all the headers, a header line:
List-Archive: http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys
will tell you (just for the future record).
For background info: for several months I have restricted myself to Etoys and tile-based scripting to get a better appreciation of Etoys myself but also to gain some perspective on what an end-user/ non-programmer (child/ parent/ teacher) may experience and especially the problems they may encounter. So while I personally can find my way around most problems I usually call a halt where I think a newcomer may get completely stuck. I started this exercise using the image from http://etoys.laptop.org/src/etoys-dev.zip and pull down updates on a regular basis. I chose this one assuming it best represented any future public release (sans example projects) and to avoid posting bug reports on things that may already have been fixed. A count today reveals my image contains 51 projects about 2/3 of which are specifically for investigating various aspects of Morphs/EToy/scripting.
Thank you for trying this. But the etoys.image (not -dev.image) would be more suitable for that purpose, and keep updating the Squeakland-OLPC is almost the same as what you would get soon as the official release.
I am running on winxp with a 3.10.2 (alpha) vm, don't have access to an XO and assuming that the Etoys image will eventually be hw/os agnostic... all of which should have been stated in my original post, sry!
Because of the philosophy that the Sugar has (stay away from document files, etc.) everything cannot be exactly the same, and we/I didn't like the 75 pixels thick black thing at the top. Again, thank you for trying. We certainly have some more time to change some stuff to have better synchronized versions.
I have checked again and the problem only exists in the original image from etoys-image-and-pr.zip. With updates the button alternates between the default project and the last project entered. This makes sense but of out interest why can the root project not be the default?
On Sugar, one may launch the etoys image to "join" the collaboration initiated by others. In that case, starting from an empty project is better than having clouds and a running car.
Is it right to assume that this release and the reference to SqueakLand implies that OLPC Etoys *is* going platform agnostic?
It depends on the definition of platform agnostic. You will be able to share the projects among different platforms, etc. but the share button and load button in the bar etc. will be different.
In which case will references to "sugar" be renamed? I ask this out of ignorance of how exactly Etoys interacts with Sugar. I should make amends but since I don't ever expect to own an XO it would be a distraction.
Hmm, what "references" do you have in your mind?
As an aside: I did plan to migrate to that release but discovered problems saving/loading projects which contain child projects (in etoys-dev).
It should generally work.
Thank you!
-- Yoshiki
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Derek O'Connell -
K. K. Subramaniam -
Korakurider -
Yoshiki Ohshima