Hi,
I have an upcoming Etoys workshop and I would like to have german versions of the Quick Guides. How can I translate these guides?
Greeetings, Rita
On 19.03.2009, at 11:03, Rita Freudenberg wrote:
Hi,
I have an upcoming Etoys workshop and I would like to have german versions of the Quick Guides. How can I translate these guides?
The same way as you would translate projects I think. The guides are authored as projects and then converted to the guide format for distribution.
Which reminds me that we need to upload the original guide projects into the dev repository. And they need to get converted automatically by the ReleaseBuilder scripts. When even I don't know where these are and what to do with them if I found them, how could anybody else ever figure out how to update the guides?
- Bert -
Rita, After much discussion last year, we decided that Quick Guides would not be translated in the normal Etoys way. The layout of the text on the small pages of the Guides is important, and automatic translation was not working well for that. The way to translate is to copy a guide out of the flap with the green handle, edit the text, and then save the current project using the same name as the project. I then convert these to .sexp format. Unconverted project files in the QuickGuides folder also work. You can try out your new guides that way. To use the guides in German, replace the QuickGuides folder with a new one that has German guide projects in it.
Bert, Yes, I am the person who knows how to prepare guides for the release. I make them in to .sexp files and put them in a folder. You then commit the folder to SVN, and do the normal build process. (I'll need to look at my notes and remember all of this.)
--Ted.
Ted Kaehler wrote:
Rita, After much discussion last year, we decided that Quick Guides would not be translated in the normal Etoys way. The layout of the text on the small pages of the Guides is important, and automatic translation was not working well for that. The way to translate is to copy a guide out of the flap with the green handle, edit the text, and then save the current project using the same name as the project.
Here you mean the same name of the file in the QuickGuides-folder? So I name a project "NavBarKeepFindProjects.pr" for instance?
I then convert these to .sexp format. Unconverted project files in the QuickGuides folder also work. You can try out your new guides that way. To use the guides in German, replace the QuickGuides folder with a new one that has German guide projects in it.
Hm, it doesn't work with two unconverted project files. I tried the above mentionend file and another one and put them in an extra folder. Then I replaced the original folder with my small one, but when I click on an item in the help flap, nothing happens. In the english version, I get a menu with two options to choose from and that menu did not appear with my small german folder. I attach the two translated projects with this mail, perhaps there is something else I did wrong?
Rita
Bert, Yes, I am the person who knows how to prepare guides for the release. I make them in to .sexp files and put them in a folder. You then commit the folder to SVN, and do the normal build process. (I'll need to look at my notes and remember all of this.)
--Ted.
On Friday 20 Mar 2009 3:45:34 pm Rita Freudenberg wrote:
Hm, it doesn't work with two unconverted project files. I tried the above mentionend file and another one and put them in an extra folder. Then I replaced the original folder with my small one, but when I click on an item in the help flap, nothing happens. In the english version, I get a menu with two options to choose from and that menu did not appear with my small german folder. I attach the two translated projects with this mail, perhaps there is something else I did wrong?
I suspect this is because your projects are not in the index. The Index book (the first book in the Help flap) is generated when the image is built and not when it is loaded :-(.
I was able to load your book from its project without any issue by creating a button for it (see attached picture).
Subbu
On 20.03.2009, at 14:54, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Friday 20 Mar 2009 3:45:34 pm Rita Freudenberg wrote:
Hm, it doesn't work with two unconverted project files. I tried the above mentionend file and another one and put them in an extra folder. Then I replaced the original folder with my small one, but when I click on an item in the help flap, nothing happens. In the english version, I get a menu with two options to choose from and that menu did not appear with my small german folder. I attach the two translated projects with this mail, perhaps there is something else I did wrong?
I suspect this is because your projects are not in the index. The Index book (the first book in the Help flap) is generated when the image is built and not when it is loaded :-(.
No that's not it. I worked with Rita and found that the code gathering guides only looks for the sexp.data.gz files, but the code actually loading the guide works with both .pr and sexp.data.gz files. So if you put an empty sexp.data.gz next to the .pr it works fine.
We also found you can rename the guides to a local language, as long as the file name still starts with the original stem (NavBar, Paint, etc):
-rw-r--r--@ 1 root admin 52454 Mar 20 12:08 NavBarSpeichern-und- Laden.pr -rw-r--r-- 1 root admin 0 Mar 20 12:48 NavBarSpeichern-und- Laden.sexp.data.gz
The title must not get too long because the layout is not adaptive to that.
One thing that was not obvious was how to edit the additional pages of a guide. Turns out each guide is a book but with its controls off, they can be made visible in the book's halo menu to access the other pages.
Hopefully Rita is going to write this up as a guide (hehe) to other translators.
- Bert -
At 3:12 PM +0100 3/20/09, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
... I worked with Rita and found that the code gathering guides only looks for the sexp.data.gz files, but the code actually loading the guide works with both .pr and sexp.data.gz files. So if you put an empty sexp.data.gz next to the .pr it works fine.
Bert and Rita, You have uncovered a bug. My intention was that the author should replace any .sexp.data.gz file with a .pr file and then see the new version of the guide. Thank you for figuring this out.
--Ted.
Bert, The instructions for how to convert a Quickguide from a .pr file to a .sexp.data.gz file are already in the OLPC image. See the comment of class QuickGuideGenerator.
** Here is a newer and simpler version **
Instructions to generate .sexp files for the Quick Guides. These are the help system for Etoys.
To create a new guide, copy the bookmorph out of the QuickGuides flap. Use the halos to completely change the contents. Create help pages for a new topic. When you are done, write the entire project out using "Keep the current project". It is now a .pr file. Look in the Quickguides folder to see how guide files are named. You can rename the guides to have a title in the local language. The file name must still starts with the original stem (NavBar, Paint, etc). An example is NavBarSpeichern-und-Laden.pr
If you put the .pr into the QuickGuides folder, you will be able to see it in the Help flap. (Click the Help button [?] once to close help, and once again to open it.) You can test a .pr file in the QuickGuides folder, but it is not in the proper format to include in the OLPC build.
The purpose of QuickGuideGenerator is to put a guide in to the proper format for distribution. (Thanks to Yoshiki for writing this converter and inventing the .sexp format.) 1) Make a folder called "To-Be-Converted" at the top level of your file system. Put the .pr files of all new guides into this folder. 1.5) Make a folder called "Newer" in the folder that has the Etoys image file. This must be a fresh new folder. 2) Start Etoys. You will NOT save this image. 3) Execute QuickGuideGenerator new openInWorld. 4) Wait until a new window appears. 5) Find the folder "To-Be-Converted" in the list and click on it. It's path will appear in the top pane. 6) Press the "Generate" button. Wait. 7) Quit Etoys without saving.
8) "Newer" will now have a .sexp file for each guide that was a .pr file. Files ending in .sexp contain Yoshiki's S-expression linearization of object trees. 9) Copy the .sexp files to QuickGuides, and remove the .pr files of the same name. 10) Start Squeak and view your new guides.
--Ted.
P.S. How to use the guides, in case you have no idea what we are talking about! Pressing the Help button [?] at the top left of the screen, brings up the QuickGuides flap. The index page has categories of help. The Jump To... button allows you to get to any help guide.
On 20.03.2009, at 16:10, Ted Kaehler wrote:
Bert, The instructions for how to convert a Quickguide from a .pr file to a .sexp.data.gz file are already in the OLPC image. See the comment of class QuickGuideGenerator.
Ah, thanks.
The purpose of QuickGuideGenerator is to put a guide in to the proper format for distribution. (Thanks to Yoshiki for writing this converter and inventing the .sexp format.)
What is the advantage of using this format for guides? Why not simply use the pr files? They are much easier to deal with.
- Bert -
On Friday 20 Mar 2009 8:40:19 pm Ted Kaehler wrote:
- Make a folder called "To-Be-Converted" at the top level of your
file system. Put the .pr files of all new guides into this folder. 1.5) Make a folder called "Newer" in the folder that has the Etoys image file. This must be a fresh new folder.
Is that "Newer" or "Newest"? QuickGuideGenerator>>initialize shows
super initialize. input _ ''. output _ (FileDirectory on: Smalltalk imagePath) fullPathFor: 'Newest'. self setup.
Subbu
Subbu, You are right! 'Newest' is correct.
Bert, The .sexp format is a factor of two smaller. We had a space budget for the guides. Loading may be faster also.
--Ted.
At 9:34 PM +0530 3/20/09, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Friday 20 Mar 2009 8:40:19 pm Ted Kaehler wrote:
- Make a folder called "To-Be-Converted" at the top level of your
file system. Put the .pr files of all new guides into this folder. 1.5) Make a folder called "Newer" in the folder that has the Etoys image file. This must be a fresh new folder.
Is that "Newer" or "Newest"? QuickGuideGenerator>>initialize shows
super initialize. input _ ''. output _ (FileDirectory on: Smalltalk imagePath) fullPathFor: 'Newest'. self setup.
Subbu
On 20.03.2009, at 18:26, Ted Kaehler wrote:
Bert, The .sexp format is a factor of two smaller. We had a space budget for the guides.
Are you sure? Here is the original NavBar guide and Rita's project:
NavBarKeepFindProjects.sexp.data.gz 58627 Bytes NavBarSpeichern-und-Laden.pr 52454 Bytes
Loading may be faster also.
Did not measure that for the guides, but I think we turned back to the old project format for speed reasons. Sexprs are actually slower.
- Bert -
At Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:35:48 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Loading may be faster also.
Did not measure that for the guides, but I think we turned back to the old project format for speed reasons. Sexprs are actually slower.
It is faster for smaller projects/files like a guide page, but that is offset by the fact that the extra file compression overhead for high entropy files on XO, and non XO platform it is less of a problem.
But the biggest reason is not to treat a book as a project, which carrys so much excess baggages, but an individual morph (so that it is easy to get rid of, etc.). We could imagine to make a better tools for treating books and make .morphs but then that is yet another similar tool to do the similar job...
-- Yoshiki
On Friday 20 Mar 2009 10:56:46 pm Ted Kaehler wrote:
Bert, The .sexp format is a factor of two smaller. We had a space budget for the guides. Loading may be faster also.
Wouldn't this depend on the size of book morph? Small books will shrink more in sexp because of image segment overheads. However, if all the books are held in one project, then this overhead will not be significant.
Subbu
Hopefully Rita is going to write this up as a guide (hehe) to other translators.
Sure, I will do that. Who can create a repository, where we can put all the project files? I would like to point people somewhere to start working.
Rita
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
K. K. Subramaniam -
Rita Freudenberg -
Ted Kaehler -
Yoshiki Ohshima