Hi all
He took me at least 10 min to be able to open it (I'm really terrible with user interfaces) but the result is quite cool.
please find a list of bugs/questions/suggestions after playing with my laptop (which is quite cool).
OLPC Bug: ------------ - I clicked on the mess network then on the small triangle with represent my wifi and I got a window to type the login. I typed the login in, but I could never get the Ok button letting me to press it. :(
Etoy Bugs: ------ - etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Suggestion: ------------ - Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell, tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine. I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu: - the size of the square are a bit too small.
- This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments because I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image. I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
- Will DrGeo be buried in the Etoy projects ? Because this would be better to put it as a separate entry. DrGeo can definitively be a first class application on such a machine.
Questions for BotsInc. -------------------------
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others but I failed? Is there a way?
I feel that there is a huge potential to see the ideas of alan becoming true at different level (etoys, Smalltalk skin onion model) and I have the impression that the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access.
Stef
Stef,
sorry, for the most part I have no idea what you're talking about.
Do you have a B4 now? If so, great! But it probably came with build 406 which is totally outdated. You should update to the current stable build and firmware (623, q2d03) before reporting bugs. And even that is not the latest version, but has Etoys of two months ago. You can use this URL to see currently open Etoys tickets:
https://dev.laptop.org/query? status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&group=milestone&component=eto ys- activity&order=priority&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=type&col=prior ity
Also note that many things that work in 623 will not work in the next stable build, because the security framework is now enabled.
All file access (even on a USB stick) is via the Journal - but this wasn't implemented in 406 yet.
We agree very much that "the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access", this is what my several calls to the Squeak community were about, without much response so far. The core team is busy enough with making Etoys work, we can't spend too much time on making the Smalltalk experience better, yet. We try nevertheless - in the latest version we support the view-source key, for example.
- Bert -
On Nov 10, 2007, at 22:48 , stephane ducasse wrote:
Hi all
He took me at least 10 min to be able to open it (I'm really terrible with user interfaces) but the result is quite cool.
please find a list of bugs/questions/suggestions after playing with my laptop (which is quite cool).
OLPC Bug:
- I clicked on the mess network then on the small triangle with
represent my wifi and I got a window to type the login. I typed the login in, but I could never get the Ok button letting me to press it. :(
Etoy Bugs:
- etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first
etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Suggestion:
- Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell,
tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine. I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu:
the size of the square are a bit too small.
This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments because
I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image.
I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
- Will DrGeo be buried in the Etoy projects ?
Because this would be better to put it as a separate entry. DrGeo can definitively be a first class application on such a machine.
Questions for BotsInc.
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with
the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB
stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others
but I failed? Is there a way?
I feel that there is a huge potential to see the ideas of alan becoming true at different level (etoys, Smalltalk skin onion model) and I have the impression that the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access.
Stef
Ok sorry to be not clear.
Do you have a B4 now?
I do not know. :)
If so, great! But it probably came with build 406 which is totally outdated. You should update to the current stable build and firmware (623, q2d03) before reporting bugs. And even that is not the latest version, but has Etoys of two months ago. You can use this URL to see currently open Etoys tickets:
https://dev.laptop.org/query? status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&group=milestone&component=e to ys- activity&order=priority&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=type&col=pri or ity
Also note that many things that work in 623 will not work in the next stable build, because the security framework is now enabled.
Ok
All file access (even on a USB stick) is via the Journal - but this wasn't implemented in 406 yet.
Ok I will try to understand.
We agree very much that "the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access", this is what my several calls to the Squeak community were about, without much response so far.
I never see them.
The core team is busy enough with making Etoys work, we can't spend too much time on making the Smalltalk experience better, yet.
I imagine. This was more a meta remark for your community in general (you know class comments and all the rest.)
We try nevertheless - in the latest version we support the view-source key, for example.
? what is it?
Stef
- Bert -
On Nov 10, 2007, at 22:48 , stephane ducasse wrote:
Hi all
He took me at least 10 min to be able to open it (I'm really terrible with user interfaces) but the result is quite cool.
please find a list of bugs/questions/suggestions after playing with my laptop (which is quite cool).
OLPC Bug:
- I clicked on the mess network then on the small triangle with
represent my wifi and I got a window to type the login. I typed the login in, but I could never get the Ok button letting me to press it. :(
Etoy Bugs:
- etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first
etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Suggestion:
- Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell,
tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine. I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu:
the size of the square are a bit too small.
This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments because
I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image.
I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
- Will DrGeo be buried in the Etoy projects ?
Because this would be better to put it as a separate entry. DrGeo can definitively be a first class application on such a machine.
Questions for BotsInc.
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with
the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB
stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others
but I failed? Is there a way?
I feel that there is a huge potential to see the ideas of alan becoming true at different level (etoys, Smalltalk skin onion model) and I have the impression that the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access.
Stef
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Nov 11, 2007, at 20:15 , stephane ducasse wrote:
Do you have a B4 now?
I do not know. :)
Well. Do you have an actual XO laptop? If so, does it have a colored logo on its case?
We try nevertheless - in the latest version we support the view- source key, for example.
? what is it?
Please start with the Human Interface Guidelines which outline the UI ideas in Sugar. It also talks about the view-source functionality. You really need to understand those points to see why and how Sugar is different from other environments. Otherwise a lot of the stuff we talk about will not make sense to you:
- Bert -
FYI, the model number of the laptop is also on the sticker under the battery.
-walter
On Nov 11, 2007 4:47 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On Nov 11, 2007, at 20:15 , stephane ducasse wrote:
Do you have a B4 now?
I do not know. :)
Well. Do you have an actual XO laptop? If so, does it have a colored logo on its case?
We try nevertheless - in the latest version we support the view- source key, for example.
? what is it?
Please start with the Human Interface Guidelines which outline the UI ideas in Sugar. It also talks about the view-source functionality. You really need to understand those points to see why and how Sugar is different from other environments. Otherwise a lot of the stuff we talk about will not make sense to you:
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
We agree very much that "the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access", this is what my several calls to the Squeak community were about, without much response so far.
I would like to comment on that without the intention to be nasty. Just sharing up my thoughts on that. We spent a lot of time on 3.9 integrating a lot of changes (besides traits which could be removed and apparently scared a lot of people for no reason). Taking 3.8 as a basis for OLPC was a clear message that all these efforts to improve Squeak were not interesting. So after that why would I spend time on helping while I already did that and I most of the time got criticism and sarcasms from great squeakers. Of course may be I misunderstood the message behind choosing 3.8 but now we get a squeak system that does not have all the improvements of 3.9 and a nice fork. But this is ok. I'm sad and I'm hesitating to do something to bring all the energy together by looking at the changes made in OLPC and bringing them to squeak. But I have the impression that nobody cares, so may be I will simply do something of my free time and energy. The underlying message is that: with a bit more communication you and the community could have got a much better system but it seems that communication costed too much so everybody was playing in his corner. This is ok too and I can understand that. But then we get what we have.
The core team is busy enough with making Etoys work, we can't spend too much time on making the Smalltalk experience better, yet. We try nevertheless - in the latest version we support the view-source key, for example.
2007/11/11, stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr:
We agree very much that "the Smalltalk part could be made easier to access", this is what my several calls to the Squeak community were about, without much response so far.
I would like to comment on that without the intention to be nasty. Just sharing up my thoughts on that. We spent a lot of time on 3.9 integrating a lot of changes (besides traits which could be removed and apparently scared a lot of people for no reason). Taking 3.8 as a basis for OLPC was a clear message that all these efforts to improve Squeak were not interesting. So after that why would I spend time
Of course we care about the effort to improve Squeak in 3.9, and we want more.
Retaining the maximum compatibility between squeak-olpc and squeak3.9 seems to me very important if you want to optimize the energy flux from the Squeak community.
So in one hand it is not possible to cut the root from the Squeak community then in the other hand blame it to not embrace. It is bad understanding of free software community to not care about that.
Personally I will always stick to main Squeak 3.9 (and following version) for development with the hope porting to Squeak-olpc will still be possible.
Best regards,
Hilaire
I would like to comment on that without the intention to be nasty. Just sharing up my thoughts on that. We spent a lot of time on 3.9 integrating a lot of changes (besides traits which could be removed and apparently scared a lot of people for no reason). Taking 3.8 as a basis for OLPC was a clear message that all these efforts to improve Squeak were not interesting. So after that why would I spend time on helping while I already did that and I most of the time got criticism and sarcasms from great squeakers.
It wasn't like that at all, Stef. One of the biggest reasons why we ended up with a 3.8-based image was because the old Squeakland image was based on 3.8. In the other words, we didn't pick mainstream 3.8 image over 3.9. We picked the Squeakland image as the basis.
And why? Because .pr files created in the Squeakland image are not compatible with the 3.9 image. The class shape change introduced by Traits; you cannot load them into 3.9-based image. That was a big no-no.
We, the whole Squeak community, weren't too careful about the implication of Traits and existing contents when Traits was being integrated to the mainstream image. This was really unfortunate, but we couldn't simply ignore the existing contents.
And, to be honest, having a real control on the entire system was important as development has to be done quickly. Just sticking with an image we understand was another motivation. (At the risk of losing the "improvements after 3.9, that is true.)
Of course may be I misunderstood the message behind choosing 3.8 but now we get a squeak system that does not have all the improvements of 3.9 and a nice fork. But this is ok. I'm sad and I'm hesitating to do something to bring all the energy together by looking at the changes made in OLPC and bringing them to squeak. But I have the impression that nobody cares, so may be I will simply do something of my free time and energy. The underlying message is that: with a bit more communication you and the community could have got a much better system but it seems that communication costed too much so everybody was playing in his corner. This is ok too and I can understand that. But then we get what we have.
And, like Bert wrote (quoted below), the primary concern is always to provide a better Etoys experience.
The core team is busy enough with making Etoys work, we can't spend too much time on making the Smalltalk experience better, yet. We try nevertheless - in the latest version we support the view-source key, for example.
-- Yoshiki
It wasn't like that at all, Stef. One of the biggest reasons why we ended up with a 3.8-based image was because the old Squeakland image was based on 3.8. In the other words, we didn't pick mainstream 3.8 image over 3.9. We picked the Squeakland image as the basis.
And why? Because .pr files created in the Squeakland image are not compatible with the 3.9 image. The class shape change introduced by Traits; you cannot load them into 3.9-based image. That was a big no-no.
Ok I understand. I do not remember if this is really the shape changes that break projects I will ask marcus.
We, the whole Squeak community, weren't too careful about the implication of Traits and existing contents when Traits was being integrated to the mainstream image. This was really unfortunate, but we couldn't simply ignore the existing contents.
And, to be honest, having a real control on the entire system was important as development has to be done quickly. Just sticking with an image we understand was another motivation. (At the risk of losing the "improvements after 3.9, that is true.)
Yes but now we lose mutual benefit.
And, like Bert wrote (quoted below), the primary concern is always to provide a better Etoys experience.
I was also thinking about older kids :) Thanks for answering because this is the kind of answer I can understand I still hope to find some times to harvest the changes made in olpc for squeak 3.11 or after Stef
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Hi,
stephane ducasse wrote:
[...]
And, like Bert wrote (quoted below), the primary concern is always to provide a better Etoys experience.
I was also thinking about older kids :) Thanks for answering because this is the kind of answer I can understand I still hope to find some times to harvest the changes made in olpc for squeak 3.11 or after Stef
I'm working with "older kids" (or younger people) here also and I'm pretty interested in bridges from etoys to Smalltalk and from Smalltalk to other modeling experiences/paradigms (that's why we're using Bots Inc in our classes and just having an small exposure to Scratch - Etoys). I have noticed the problem importing projects from one version of Squeak to other (seems like a fractured multiverse, sometimes), but I hope that multiverses of Squeak 3.10 will help to solve this (Edgar is willing to incorporate things from etoys to 3.10).
By the way is nice to have Bots Inc as a project for olpc etoys, but I miss the flaps. Other thing is that we you load the Bots Inc project inside olpc etoys you get the world menu of Bots Inc., which is fine inside the Bots Inc project, but no so nice when you get back to the original World.
Cheers,
Offray
By the way is nice to have Bots Inc as a project for olpc etoys, but I miss the flaps.
Which one the one of BotsInc? Tell me and I will try to fix that.
Other thing is that we you load the Bots Inc project inside olpc etoys you get the world menu of Bots Inc., which is fine inside the Bots Inc project, but no so nice when you get back to the original World.
Ok do you mean that I poluted the system and when you exist a botsinc project and get back to another world I should reinstall the normal menu?
Is there any hook to perform an action on project close?
Stef
Cheers,
Offray -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFHOfaDpzl8tTvDAE8RAoeSAJ95XYbZ3uOiV394+KG4OdTAiNzpcACgjcKc kTj6NaDfweX/DlB5nK1LkDU= =y1y0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Nov 15, 2007, at 10:41 , stephane ducasse wrote:
By the way is nice to have Bots Inc as a project for olpc etoys, but I miss the flaps.
Which one the one of BotsInc? Tell me and I will try to fix that.
Other thing is that we you load the Bots Inc project inside olpc etoys you get the world menu of Bots Inc., which is fine inside the Bots Inc project, but no so nice when you get back to the original World.
Ok do you mean that I poluted the system and when you exist a botsinc project and get back to another world I should reinstall the normal menu?
Is there any hook to perform an action on project close?
We should rather remove the back button in user projects. in Sugar, it only makes sense in the gallery / example projects.
- Bert -
stephane ducasse wrote:
It wasn't like that at all, Stef. One of the biggest reasons why we ended up with a 3.8-based image was because the old Squeakland image was based on 3.8. In the other words, we didn't pick mainstream 3.8 image over 3.9. We picked the Squeakland image as the basis.
And why? Because .pr files created in the Squeakland image are not compatible with the 3.9 image. The class shape change introduced by Traits; you cannot load them into 3.9-based image. That was a big no-no.
Ok I understand. I do not remember if this is really the shape changes that break projects I will ask marcus.
We, the whole Squeak community, weren't too careful about the implication of Traits and existing contents when Traits was being integrated to the mainstream image. This was really unfortunate, but we couldn't simply ignore the existing contents.
And, to be honest, having a real control on the entire system was important as development has to be done quickly. Just sticking with an image we understand was another motivation. (At the risk of losing the "improvements after 3.9, that is true.)
Yes but now we lose mutual benefit.
And, like Bert wrote (quoted below), the primary concern is always to provide a better Etoys experience.
I was also thinking about older kids :) Thanks for answering because this is the kind of answer I can understand I still hope to find some times to harvest the changes made in olpc for squeak 3.11 or after
*Pavel* Krivanek maintains packages where Morphic and Etoys are separated. I'm not sure of the status of those,I guess the etoy version is quite old. But it could be a starting point.
Karl
Hi bert
Do you have a B4 now? If so, great! But it probably came with build 406 which is totally outdated. You should update to the current stable build and firmware (623, q2d03) before reporting bugs. And even that is not the latest version, but has Etoys of two months ago. You can use this URL to see currently open Etoys tickets:
Just a question the web site mentioned 625 as the latest and 542 as the latest-stable. Should I still take 623? I guess so.
Stef
Stef,
Like Bert wrote, please update the system to see a newer version.
- etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first
etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
If I understand waht you mean, this is fixed. Now, on OLPC it is not easy to see a ProjectViewMorph.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Hmm. Not sure what it is.
- Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell,
tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine.
From the ObjectCatalog, these are relatively easy to access (we took out Tetris from ObjectCatalog for various reasons, though.)
I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu:
- the size of the square are a bit too small.
We didn't bother to improve the look of these games so far.
- This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments because
I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
Well, until yesterday, our policy was to discard sources and changes anyway, so there were no comment at all in system browsers.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image.
I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
But, Etoys experience, not Smalltalk programmin, is the primary focus.
There are quite a few classes we could get rid of, like SkipList, SmaCC, etc, yes.
Questions for BotsInc.
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with
the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
It probably will be to save into a folder.
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB
stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others
but I failed? Is there a way?
If you update your image to, say, build 625, the system should mount it automatically. You could still open FileList.
-- Yoshiki
Will DrGeo be buried in the Etoy projects ?
This is an interesting question that applies more broadly. I had discussed with Alan how we might use the taskbar to make some more ways into Etoys. Dr. Geo is just one example. We could launch Etoys as a Media Player (we already can from the Journal, but that is one step removed) or as a Media Maker or as "Turtle Art", etc. Just a thought, but my long standing problem with Etoys is that it is so rich that it is perhaps asking too much of the novice user when it comes to finding an initial focus.
-walter
On Nov 10, 2007 7:31 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
Stef,
Like Bert wrote, please update the system to see a newer version.
- etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first
etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
If I understand waht you mean, this is fixed. Now, on OLPC it is not easy to see a ProjectViewMorph.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Hmm. Not sure what it is.
- Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell,
tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine.
From the ObjectCatalog, these are relatively easy to access (we took out Tetris from ObjectCatalog for various reasons, though.)
I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu:
- the size of the square are a bit too small.
We didn't bother to improve the look of these games so far.
- This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments because
I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
Well, until yesterday, our policy was to discard sources and changes anyway, so there were no comment at all in system browsers.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image.
I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
But, Etoys experience, not Smalltalk programmin, is the primary focus.
There are quite a few classes we could get rid of, like SkipList, SmaCC, etc, yes.
Questions for BotsInc.
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with
the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
It probably will be to save into a folder.
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB
stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others
but I failed? Is there a way?
If you update your image to, say, build 625, the system should mount it automatically. You could still open FileList.
-- Yoshiki
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
Walter,
Yes, I have heard of the idea to have pre-configured projects for different tasks. (Sometime back on a laptop mailing list, there was opposition to have a "launcher" type activity, but this is good to hear from you.)
Still, we need to work with Sugar environment's restriction (I wonder if we will be able to load a project from another, etc.) but I'd like to work on this issue, and invite people to write such projects.
-- Yoshiki
Will DrGeo be buried in the Etoy projects ?
This is an interesting question that applies more broadly. I had discussed with Alan how we might use the taskbar to make some more ways into Etoys. Dr. Geo is just one example. We could launch Etoys as a Media Player (we already can from the Journal, but that is one step removed) or as a Media Maker or as "Turtle Art", etc. Just a thought, but my long standing problem with Etoys is that it is so rich that it is perhaps asking too much of the novice user when it comes to finding an initial focus.
-walter
On Nov 10, 2007 7:31 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
Stef,
Like Bert wrote, please update the system to see a newer version.
- etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first
etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
If I understand waht you mean, this is fixed. Now, on OLPC it is not easy to see a ProjectViewMorph.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Hmm. Not sure what it is.
- Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell,
tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine.
From the ObjectCatalog, these are relatively easy to access (we took out Tetris from ObjectCatalog for various reasons, though.)
I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu:
- the size of the square are a bit too small.
We didn't bother to improve the look of these games so far.
- This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments because
I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
Well, until yesterday, our policy was to discard sources and changes anyway, so there were no comment at all in system browsers.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image.
I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
But, Etoys experience, not Smalltalk programmin, is the primary focus.
There are quite a few classes we could get rid of, like SkipList, SmaCC, etc, yes.
Questions for BotsInc.
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with
the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
It probably will be to save into a folder.
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB
stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others
but I failed? Is there a way?
If you update your image to, say, build 625, the system should mount it automatically. You could still open FileList.
-- Yoshiki
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
-- Walter Bender One Laptop per Child http://laptop.org _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
Hi Walter
Thanks for your answer: just a bit of context to my initial question. I read that OLPC is not a computer project but a educational one and I like that (and I'm a technical person even if I try to educate myself to education problems -- and was a math teacher and computer scientist teacher in another life). I just thought that some squeak apps that could be packaged (ie use the etoy deployment system) as etoy projects could be really interesting for kids and teachers. My wife (who is a math/physic techer) asked me if there was - a chess program - a music program - some other games and I told here that is already there in Squeak. So we just some little tweaks we could get a lot more contents for OLPC without changing the size of Squeak (it is already in) just not easily accessible.
Will DrGeo be buried in the Etoy projects ?
This is an interesting question that applies more broadly. I had discussed with Alan how we might use the taskbar to make some more ways into Etoys. Dr. Geo is just one example. We could launch Etoys as a Media Player (we already can from the Journal, but that is one step removed) or as a Media Maker or as "Turtle Art", etc. Just a thought, but my long standing problem with Etoys is that it is so rich that it is perhaps asking too much of the novice user when it comes to finding an initial focus.
I have the impression that this is selecting the projects that may be tedious/confusing.
stef
-walter
On Nov 10, 2007 7:31 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org wrote:
Stef,
Like Bert wrote, please update the system to see a newer version.
- etoy projects may get in your way: they can stay over the first
etoy window and you do not know how to get rid of them. of course there is the halos but it feels strange.
If I understand waht you mean, this is fixed. Now, on OLPC it is not easy to see a ProjectViewMorph.
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click
cancel, I get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Hmm. Not sure what it is.
- Is there any plans to have access to the squeak games: SameCell,
tetris and chess. Because a chess program would be cool on this machine.
From the ObjectCatalog, these are relatively easy to access (we took out Tetris from ObjectCatalog for various reasons, though.)
I could open the sameGame because I could get access to the menu:
- the size of the square are a bit too small.
We didn't bother to improve the look of these games so far.
- This is a pity that the Squeak classes have so few comments
because I'm sure a kid could get alone the SameGame new openInWorld but if it would be explained. I think that there is a huge opportunity that such a "details" can break.
Well, until yesterday, our policy was to discard sources and changes anyway, so there were no comment at all in system browsers.
- I was wondering why stuff like skipLists are still in this image.
I'm sure that we could have a much better contents that kids could really explore.
But, Etoys experience, not Smalltalk programmin, is the primary focus.
There are quite a few classes we could get rid of, like SkipList, SmaCC, etc, yes.
Questions for BotsInc.
- I removed all references to the file system but when I play with
the simple drawing tool I could save drawing to files. So is it possible or not to save files?
It probably will be to save into a folder.
- I wanted to load my botsInc project so I put it naively on a USB
stick but how can I access it. I could not from a load from the load your project list
- Using the fileList I tried to use usbdev1.2_ep02 and some others
but I failed? Is there a way?
If you update your image to, say, build 625, the system should mount it automatically. You could still open FileList.
-- Yoshiki
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
-- Walter Bender One Laptop per Child http://laptop.org _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Hmm. Not sure what it is.
I was certainly not clear enough. I cick on load project cloud and this brings me to a list of projects and I click on OLPC and I get a dialog, where I clicked cancel and I got a wallback but this may be fixed. I will try to understand how to upgrade.
Stef
Stef,
- when I do load, click on OLPC, get a dialog window, click cancel, I
get a primitive fail with a debugger.
Hmm. Not sure what it is.
I was certainly not clear enough. I cick on load project cloud and this brings me to a list of projects and I click on OLPC and I get a dialog, where I clicked cancel and I got a wallback but this may be fixed.
It is certainly "fixed". Now, there is no dialog to load a project (that is easily accessible.)
I will try to understand how to upgrade.
Take a look at:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Autoreinstallation_image
(Wow this page got longer.) Based on your hardware, pick right build image and firmware and replace files in:
http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/autore;a=blob_plain;f=olpc-auto.zip...
If you're adventurous, try even newer builds from:
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/
-- Yoshiki
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Hilaire Fernandes -
karl -
Offray Vladimir Luna Cardenas -
stephane ducasse -
Walter Bender -
Yoshiki Ohshima