I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
Karl
Perhaps more tile options to deal with sound through the script(or) mechanism such that morphs could represent graphical (musical) scores - morph properties could be mapped to sound properties and vice versa.
karl wrote:
I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
Karl _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
polishookm wrote:
Perhaps more tile options to deal with sound through the script(or) mechanism such that morphs could represent graphical (musical) scores
- morph properties could be mapped to sound properties and vice versa.
Yes, that is part of ScorePlayerMorph. I have a change set somewhere that adds a menu option to the ScorePlayerMorph to add tracks, so editing of scores becomes accessible.
Karl
karl wrote:
I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
Karl _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
I think I'm thinking about something like a holder for sounds (audio files) where each sound could also have a costume (what it looks like) and a flexshell (possible transformations that have been applied to the audio file). So tile scripting would then be able to do quite a bit in the way of multimedia presentation with sound and morphic objects.
Perhaps the piano roll mechanism (and the metaphor of the piano) is outdated (or should be one option among several others ....).
Perhaps the entire mechanism could link to OLPC Csound (through OSC?)
.... Hope this is all helpful as ideas ....
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
Perhaps more tile options to deal with sound through the script(or) mechanism such that morphs could represent graphical (musical) scores - morph properties could be mapped to sound properties and vice versa.
Yes, that is part of ScorePlayerMorph. I have a change set somewhere that adds a menu option to the ScorePlayerMorph to add tracks, so editing of scores becomes accessible.
Karl
karl wrote:
I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
Karl _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
polishookm wrote:
I think I'm thinking about something like a holder for sounds (audio files) where each sound could also have a costume (what it looks like) and a flexshell (possible transformations that have been applied to the audio file). So tile scripting would then be able to do quite a bit in the way of multimedia presentation with sound and morphic objects.
There is allready quite a lot of the functionality you ask for but the tools could be improved.
Yes it would be nice to script the FM synth, something like the Tamtam synth editor in etoys.
Sound could be represented with their sonogram but that would soon get confusing. You could have a sketch associated with a sound to represent it in a holder but the maintenance could be big if you where to create a long list of sounds and then a image for each.
SampledSounds are a little like sketches and you don't really script other transformations of sketches than rotate and scale and SampledSound can script it's volume.
BookMorphs can trigger sounds on page turns etc.
Perhaps the piano roll mechanism (and the metaphor of the piano) is outdated (or should be one option among several others ....).
It's absolutely not the only path. But I find the score quite attractive and if it could be generalized into a spread sheet all kind of things could be scripted and played back. Take a look at the Skeleton animation package for example. http://languagegame.org:8888/ggame/11
Perhaps the entire mechanism could link to OLPC Csound (through OSC?)
After reading about the different plans laid out for OLPC lately I'm quite happy to keep as much tools as possible in the image and let the world around have their system switches and temper tantrums ;-)
.... Hope this is all helpful as ideas ....
Very helpful and its good to have different ideas brought up : -)
Karl
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
Perhaps more tile options to deal with sound through the script(or) mechanism such that morphs could represent graphical (musical) scores - morph properties could be mapped to sound properties and vice versa.
Yes, that is part of ScorePlayerMorph. I have a change set somewhere that adds a menu option to the ScorePlayerMorph to add tracks, so editing of scores becomes accessible.
Karl
karl wrote:
I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
Karl _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
I think I'm thinking about something like a holder for sounds (audio files) where each sound could also have a costume (what it looks like) and a flexshell (possible transformations that have been applied to the audio file). So tile scripting would then be able to do quite a bit in the way of multimedia presentation with sound and morphic objects.
There is allready quite a lot of the functionality you ask for but the tools could be improved.
I'm not sure quite where to find the "functionality you ask" but for sure, I'm happy to look. And I'd be very willing to contribute to all improvements.
Yes it would be nice to script the FM synth, something like the Tamtam synth editor in etoys.
For sure that's one way to go. But I think a significant limitation that I see, at least from the image at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:TAMTAM.jpg
is that Tamtam makes you work in, well, Tamtam. I think what I'm trying to articulate is a more general workflow based more directly on Morphic to go out-of-the-box, rather than in-the-box (where tamtam is the box). But this isn't to say at all that Tamtam isn't a great tool .... because at least from what I see as posted on the web, it looks great.
Sound could be represented with their sonogram but that would soon get confusing. You could have a sketch associated with a sound to represent it in a holder but the maintenance could be big if you where to create a long list of sounds and then a image for each.
For sure, this could happen and it would be cumbersome. On the other hand, transformations applied to sounds could greatly reduce the number of sketches in the holder.
SampledSounds are a little like sketches and you don't really script other transformations of sketches than rotate and scale and SampledSound can script it's volume.
I'm suggesting scripting along the lines of things that are possible in SuperCollider or Csound or Pd or Max or those sorts of environments. For example, reading through a soundfile with a variety of shapes (lines, sines, randomly, etc.) Or amplitude or ring modulation or reading backwards through a table, etc. Where SuperCollider and Csound and Pd and Max fall short compared to Squeak is, of course, they don't have anything in the way of interface controls that approach much less parallel capabilities of Morphic.
BookMorphs can trigger sounds on page turns etc.
That's a good idea. So a BookMorph can be a holder of sorts.
Perhaps the piano roll mechanism (and the metaphor of the piano) is outdated (or should be one option among several others ....).
It's absolutely not the only path. But I find the score quite attractive and if it could be generalized into a spread sheet all kind of things could be scripted and played back. Take a look at the Skeleton animation package for example. http://languagegame.org:8888/ggame/11
Skeleton looks great. I'm going to take a look at it in the next few days (thanks for the reference).
One reason I'm suggesting going past the piano metaphor (and I'm a pianist ..... ) is that the piano, in the form of a keyboard, and MIDI and perhaps FM synthesis put a kind of time stamp on things. It's not that they're not fabulous tools - because they are. But they may not be contemporary in the sense of DJing and VJing.
Perhaps the entire mechanism could link to OLPC Csound (through OSC?)
After reading about the different plans laid out for OLPC lately I'm quite happy to keep as much tools as possible in the image and let the world around have their system switches and temper tantrums ;-)
For sure :)
.... Hope this is all helpful as ideas ....
Very helpful and its good to have different ideas brought up : -)
Another way to frame what I'm suggesting is that it would be fabulous to see what might happen if the authors of many of the games and projects that are available through etoys had sound scripting capability that parallels what's now available in the visual realm.
I know the capability and possibility exists .... as you mentioned in another post, I think what' needed is some careful, far reaching design.
Well, again, all ideas for discussion .... :)
Karl
karl wrote:
polishookm wrote:
Perhaps more tile options to deal with sound through the script(or) mechanism such that morphs could represent graphical (musical) scores - morph properties could be mapped to sound properties and vice versa.
Yes, that is part of ScorePlayerMorph. I have a change set somewhere that adds a menu option to the ScorePlayerMorph to add tracks, so editing of scores becomes accessible.
Karl
karl wrote:
I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
Karl _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 1:04:07 am karl wrote:
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
If Sounds can be made into Etoys (like Sketches), then WAV editor can be invoked through an edit halo button.
FWIW, Subbu
K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
On Tuesday 06 May 2008 1:04:07 am karl wrote:
The tools kind of work the way they are were but are arcane eg. WaveEditor is really a sound/instrument loop editor not a tool for editing general sound clips. I have started to make it into a general editor to edit sound clips and have made good progress in that regard. What are your thoughts on where these tools should move or not move ?
If Sounds can be made into Etoys (like Sketches), then WAV editor can be invoked through an edit halo button.
FWIW, Subbu
Yes, that is a possible path. Now sounds are only represented as tiles in drop down lists Other access point are Recoding tool and the tool that pops up when a sound is d'n d into the morphic world. There is also the SoundLibraryTool that is found in the Objects tool. All of these tools will let you play the sound and hand you a tile of the sound, but the sound tiles are still abstract and must be embedded in scripts to be heard or accessed.
A benefit of a list is that you don't get the world overpopulated with morphs that could be hard to keep distinguished and organized.
A drawback is that is a different way of accessing a morph than the more tangible ellipse and sketches.
There is a little used tool called SoundSequencerMorph that play tiles dropped into it. It has a very minimal interface but it works and is really easy.
More advanced is the ScorePlayerMorph but as I said it needs to be initialized like this to be in editing mode:
| n score | n _ 3. score _ (MIDIScore new tracks: ((1 to: n) collect: [:i | Array new]); trackInfo: ((1 to: n) collect: [:i | 'Instrument' , i printString]); tempoMap: nil; ticksPerQuarterNote: 96). ScorePlayerMorph openOn: score title: 'empty score'
Then you can bring up the piano roll and then the piano keyboard and then play sounds into the score. Score player uses the FM synthesizer you can access a tool called EnvelopeEditor to edit the FM instruments.
There are lots of possible pathways here to make nicer sound / music environment but it needs to be thought through and carefully designed.
Karl
At Mon, 05 May 2008 21:34:07 +0200, karl wrote:
I've been slowly working my way through the code of WaveEditor and added a few enhancements to GraphMorph and PianoKeyboardMorph as well. Now I'm wondering if there is interest to include such work in the Etoy image?
I haven't looked at them carefully but here is a meta-comment:
I can't say we would do it right away, and VPRI's basic stance is that we in general are not going to add so much new features to the current Etoys. But, the current Etoys has its own life and should evolve nonetheless. We should seek a better organizational support for the current Etoys system. Then, it should start moving faster (again) and it should be easier to integrate more things and clean up the system in a better way.
-- Yoshiki
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
K. K. Subramaniam -
karl -
polishookm -
Yoshiki Ohshima