Hello all,
I have installed and played a bit with my DrGeoII package[1] within SqueakLand-OLPC image. DrGeoII is about interactive geometry within Squeak, it is a major rewrite of an C++/GTK+ application[2].
Loading the specific version 72[3] in SqueakLand-OLPC is no problem. From a workspace, executing "DrGApp new" open a new sketch ready for manipulation.
So far the compatibility is quite good. It is not surprising as DrGeoII was written with Squeak3.8. I have tested the Etoys scripting over geometric point of DrGeoII and it works ok.
The interface is still in French, but this can be changed easily. However I have noted the accented characters in the DrGeoII messages are not good. I am not sure but I think the characters in DrGeoII are UTF-8, and those characters were inputed from a Squeak3.8 image. I don't understand why it is becoming incompatible. Any idea?
Another point I am curious about is how responsive is DrGeoII within a OLPC. On my AMD1000Mhz machine it is very smooth and interactive but it may be different story with the OLPC and Geode CPU (as long as Geode integrates a FPU it should be just fine) If someone with an OLPC unit could load it[3] and report it there I would be very interested.
Hilaire Fernandes
[1] http://www.univ-savoie.fr/Portail/Groupes/fernandes/demos/2-thales/index.htm... http://www.univ-savoie.fr/Portail/Groupes/fernandes/demos/4-mosaique/index.h...
[2] http://www.ofset.org/drgeo
[3] http://www.squeaksource.com/DrGeoII/DrGeoII-HilaireFernandes.72.mcz
Hilaire,
Another point I am curious about is how responsive is DrGeoII within a OLPC. On my AMD1000Mhz machine it is very smooth and interactive but it may be different story with the OLPC and Geode CPU (as long as Geode integrates a FPU it should be just fine) If someone with an OLPC unit could load it[3] and report it there I would be very interested.
Yes, I successfully loaded the mcz file, but actually can't figure out what to do next. I remember to play with one of examples sometime ago (or did I just saw the movie?)... Can you tell me a bit more how to get started with it?
-- Yoshiki
Yoshiki Ohshima a écrit :
Hilaire,
Another point I am curious about is how responsive is DrGeoII within a OLPC. On my AMD1000Mhz machine it is very smooth and interactive but it may be different story with the OLPC and Geode CPU (as long as Geode integrates a FPU it should be just fine) If someone with an OLPC unit could load it[3] and report it there I would be very interested.
Yes, I successfully loaded the mcz file, but actually can't figure out what to do next. I remember to play with one of examples sometime ago (or did I just saw the movie?)... Can you tell me a bit
I think you saw a movie.
more how to get started with it?
Great!
Basically, you can create POINT, LINES, TRANSFORMED objects, NUMERIC OBJECT. All these geometric objects are all interconnected in a constraint system. To move these objects you have to click on the blue ball icon in the top of the interactive drawing.
For example, to create a segment just go to the LIGNE (LINE) flap, and select the segment icon. Then go over the screen and start to click to first instanciate a POINT, then move away the mouse, click again to instanciate a second POINT: a first segment will be created.
You can repeat the process with different line object, and of course you should re-use the POINT create on-fly (the small red square) when you created your segment, so you get interconnected object.
Then to experiment interactivity, select the blue ball icon in the top of the interactive drawing and drag some object with it.
You have to experiment the various tools on the green flaps. Of course I should translate in English the message so it will be easier. But well it makes sense to do so if the DrGeoII is smooth enough for the OLPC.
I can tell you I improve really a lot the user experience compare to DrGeoI.
I will tell you more later about the EToys scripting.
Best regards,
Hilaire
Hilaire,
more how to get started with it?
Great!
Basically, you can create POINT, LINES, TRANSFORMED objects, NUMERIC OBJECT. All these geometric objects are all interconnected in a constraint system. To move these objects you have to click on the blue ball icon in the top of the interactive drawing.
These steps are after I instanciated DrGWindow from 'new morph' menu, right? I tried these flaps but they don't work... I just figured out that I should evaluate "DrGApp new" (that was my question^^;).
This is a serious and impressive work. However, for OLPC, I feel that many Pythonists are contemplating similar systems. (We have yet to see what they'll offer). There would be some politics get involved if we push DrGeoII... Hmm.
-- Yoshiki
Yoshiki Ohshima a écrit :
Hilaire,
more how to get started with it?
Great!
Basically, you can create POINT, LINES, TRANSFORMED objects, NUMERIC OBJECT. All these geometric objects are all interconnected in a constraint system. To move these objects you have to click on the blue ball icon in the top of the interactive drawing.
These steps are after I instanciated DrGWindow from 'new morph' menu, right? I tried these flaps but they don't work... I just figured out that I should evaluate "DrGApp new" (that was my question^^;).
Ah ok, yeah I wrote in the first email how to instantiate an interactive drawing.
This is a serious and impressive work. However, for OLPC, I feel
Please tell me if the OLPC is responsive enough with a complex interactive drawing. I am curious.
that many Pythonists are contemplating similar systems. (We have yet
contemplating = admiring?
Once upon a time I use Python and I also wrote articles about Python programming in LinuxFocus online magazine[1] and I can quite objectively write that Squeak and Python are not playing in the same conceptual plane when it is about education oriented application development.
Oh, I don't want to dismiss Python. No, it is about how it looks like to me Squeak has not yet started to expose its full capabilities concerning educational oriented application. When writing DrGeoII, I was amazed how easily I can design it so it can be linked to other Etoys/Morph based component, and it is really there we have the full power.
As in Sciences, the things are not compartmented. There are conceptual bridges between mathematics and physics, geometry and optics, geometry and physics, etc. Everything is conceptually connected. Concerning education and computer use, and in particularly microworld system, it is very important to have such system interconnected. It helps to make kids to think in system where things are connected like objects in the real world. And moreover it gives to teachers and kids the opportunity to build easily interconnected simulation systems. In education we suffer to much about compartmented teaching, probably because teachers do not communicate enough among them.
Such microworld system could be about many of the sciences fields: optics, physics, mechanic, electricity, chemistry, geometry (DrGeoII is such a system). EToys itself is a general microworld system. In this vision the glue/link component between these microworld is the EToys scripting system itself.
So yes! This is where Squeak has not been yet (providing a huge range of interconnectable microwrold systems), although the vehicle is just there, waiting to be driven.
Best regards,
Hilaire Fernandes
to see what they'll offer). There would be some politics get involved if we push DrGeoII... Hmm.
-- Yoshiki
[1] http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/July2000/article160.shtml http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/January2002/article224.shtml http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/November2002/article266.shtml
Hilaire,
Sorry for a bit late.
This is a serious and impressive work. However, for OLPC, I feel
Please tell me if the OLPC is responsive enough with a complex interactive drawing. I am curious.
It is quite ok. I have bunch of stuff in DrGeo window, and create a script for a point and change its coordianate repeatedly by ticking the script. I get 15-19 fps, for example.
that many Pythonists are contemplating similar systems. (We have yet
contemplating = admiring?
"thinking silently", but I figured that my usage was not correct.
I meant that Pythonists are thinking without making a lot of discussions except a little bit on the python edu-sig mainling list, which is... quite uninformative^^;)
Once upon a time I use Python and I also wrote articles about Python programming in LinuxFocus online magazine[1] and I can quite objectively write that Squeak and Python are not playing in the same conceptual plane when it is about education oriented application development.
One long term "hope", "goal", or whatever that some of the members at OLPC have is to make the laptop a "python" machine. Like Lisp machines or Smalltalk machines in the past but done "for" and "in" Python. In that setting, pushing a different language has always some implications. Kind of the same discussion again, but it is not about which is good/not good at what.
As in Sciences, the things are not compartmented. There are conceptual bridges between mathematics and physics, geometry and optics, geometry and physics, etc. Everything is conceptually connected. Concerning education and computer use, and in particularly microworld system, it is very important to have such system interconnected. It helps to make kids to think in system where things are connected like objects in the real world. And moreover it gives to teachers and kids the opportunity to build easily interconnected simulation systems. In education we suffer to much about compartmented teaching, probably because teachers do not communicate enough among them.
Yes.
Such microworld system could be about many of the sciences fields: optics, physics, mechanic, electricity, chemistry, geometry (DrGeoII is such a system). EToys itself is a general microworld system. In this vision the glue/link component between these microworld is the EToys scripting system itself.
And, yes.
-- Yoshiki
Yoshiki Ohshima a écrit :
Hilaire,
Sorry for a bit late.
This is a serious and impressive work. However, for OLPC, I feel
Please tell me if the OLPC is responsive enough with a complex interactive drawing. I am curious.
It is quite ok. I have bunch of stuff in DrGeo window, and create a script for a point and change its coordianate repeatedly by ticking the script. I get 15-19 fps, for example.
Ok, not that bad.
One long term "hope", "goal", or whatever that some of the members at OLPC have is to make the laptop a "python" machine. Like Lisp
Ok, I see.
Thanks for your feedback.
Best regards,
Hilaire Fernandes
Hilaire Fernandes skrev:
Hello all,
I have installed and played a bit with my DrGeoII package[1] within SqueakLand-OLPC image. DrGeoII is about interactive geometry within Squeak, it is a major rewrite of an C++/GTK+ application[2].
Loading the specific version 72[3] in SqueakLand-OLPC is no problem. From a workspace, executing "DrGApp new" open a new sketch ready for manipulation.
So far the compatibility is quite good. It is not surprising as DrGeoII was written with Squeak3.8. I have tested the Etoys scripting over geometric point of DrGeoII and it works ok.
The interface is still in French, but this can be changed easily. However I have noted the accented characters in the DrGeoII messages are not good. I am not sure but I think the characters in DrGeoII are UTF-8, and those characters were inputed from a Squeak3.8 image. I don't understand why it is becoming incompatible. Any idea?
Another point I am curious about is how responsive is DrGeoII within a OLPC. On my AMD1000Mhz machine it is very smooth and interactive but it may be different story with the OLPC and Geode CPU (as long as Geode integrates a FPU it should be just fine) If someone with an OLPC unit could load it[3] and report it there I would be very interested.
Hilaire Fernandes
[1] http://www.univ-savoie.fr/Portail/Groupes/fernandes/demos/2-thales/index.htm...
http://www.univ-savoie.fr/Portail/Groupes/fernandes/demos/4-mosaique/index.h...
[2] http://www.ofset.org/drgeo
[3] http://www.squeaksource.com/DrGeoII/DrGeoII-HilaireFernandes.72.mcz _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@laptop.org http://mailman.laptop.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys
Looks very interesting. I don't have a laptop to test on and I don't read French so I'll wait for the translation. Karl
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Hilaire Fernandes -
karl -
Yoshiki Ohshima