Let's say you're totally lost, and want to exit Squeak without saving anything from the mess you've just made.
Wouldn't you click World > quit, then answer 'No' to 'Save changes before quitting'?
My Squeak 3.9g still saves everything for next session.
Hi,
On 11/12/06, Another Dave dooright101@yahoo.com wrote:
Let's say you're totally lost, and want to exit Squeak without saving anything from the mess you've just made.
Wouldn't you click World > quit, then answer 'No' to 'Save changes before quitting'?
My Squeak 3.9g still saves everything for next session.
strange. Mine doesn't. I just tried that with a 3.9g-7061 image (fresh from the server).
Are you absolutely sure you haven't accidentally, in the last second, hit one of the wrong pixels, i.e., one belonging to "yes"?
Best,
Michael
It's been happening pretty consistently with my 3.9g-7058-061020.
But I guess this is a minor aggravation that I should deal with by upgrading (which seems to have its own problems) or switching to a different image.
Le Dimanche 12 Novembre 2006 13:00, Michael Haupt a écrit :
On 11/12/06, Another Dave dooright101@yahoo.com wrote:
Let's say you're totally lost, and want to exit Squeak without saving anything from the mess you've just made.
Are you absolutely sure you haven't accidentally, in the last second, hit one of the wrong pixels, i.e., one belonging to "yes"?
There's a UI loop in there which is nevertheless not very graceful I think.
The first option in this sequence is the user clicking the choice:
'Quit without saving the image' (or somesuch, I do not want to change language just to get the right string that is displayed)
And then, very surprisingly, after the user has made this choice, another choice pops up that asks: 'Save image ? yes/no/cancel" (idem).
I find this to be squarly not straight, so to speak. It is confusing for any user to be asked about saving the image when the user has already expressed the will of NOT saving the image. Either remove this option in the first place, or remove the additional choice of saving the image.
My two cents.
Cheers, Al
Hi lanas,
there are 4 possibilities which come to my mind:
1 - you're using an image which we don't know, alternately: I can see a message somiliar to your's only if on windows and hit alt-f4.
2 - you're indeed on windows doing alt-f4 then there is a bug
3 - the message says "Save changes before quitting?" then this is so because you selected plain "Quit" from the World menu. In case you did the latter, perhaps your mouse thinks it clicks 1-2 pixels off and the menu is not what you expected?
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you.
/Klaus
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:32:41 +0100, lanas wrote:
Le Dimanche 12 Novembre 2006 13:00, Michael Haupt a écrit :
On 11/12/06, Another Dave dooright101@yahoo.com wrote:
Let's say you're totally lost, and want to exit Squeak without saving anything from the mess you've just made.
Are you absolutely sure you haven't accidentally, in the last second, hit one of the wrong pixels, i.e., one belonging to "yes"?
There's a UI loop in there which is nevertheless not very graceful I think.
The first option in this sequence is the user clicking the choice:
'Quit without saving the image' (or somesuch, I do not want to change language just to get the right string that is displayed)
And then, very surprisingly, after the user has made this choice, another choice pops up that asks: 'Save image ? yes/no/cancel" (idem).
I find this to be squarly not straight, so to speak. It is confusing for any user to be asked about saving the image when the user has already expressed the will of NOT saving the image. Either remove this option in the first place, or remove the additional choice of saving the image.
My two cents.
Cheers, Al
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you.
In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a "Save and quit" option followed by a "Quit" option. The "quit" option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see "save and quit" followed by "quit", it is confusing to have "quit" ask you if you want to save.
Squeak has been this way for a long time.
-Ralph
Ralph Johnson wrote:
In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a "Save and quit" option followed by a "Quit" option. The "quit" option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see "save and quit" followed by "quit", it is confusing to have "quit" ask you if you want to save.
Squeak has been this way for a long time.
-Ralph
Right. I was using this as a sort of "clear all, and restart from the beginning" command, to clean my newbie errors out the system, and I did choose "No" to "Save changes before quitting". That's why I was frustrated to find the image still there when I reloaded Squeak. This happened several times, so I made the post.
Today, I can't duplicate the problem. Was it my system? Was it me? I don't know. I will watch for it happening again, and if it does I'll try to gather as much information as I can before posting.
Hello Dave,
AD> Right. I was using this as a sort of "clear all, and restart from the AD> beginning" command, to clean my newbie errors out the system, and I did
because I still have this problem (I have it in other programs too) I close squeak by closing the squeak window. This only can abort quitting but I have no chance to save the image when I want to quit.
This is on Win but I'm sure it's valid for Linux and Mac too.
regards,
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
IC.
But then he is correct, the text *must* include three dots "Quit ..." because there is another step in that particular dialog.
Good find.
Release-team, please add the three dots to the world menu, thank you.
/Klaus
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:21:19 +0100, Ralph Johnson wrote:
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you.
In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a "Save and quit" option followed by a "Quit" option. The "quit" option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see "save and quit" followed by "quit", it is confusing to have "quit" ask you if you want to save.
Squeak has been this way for a long time.
-Ralph
FWIW, this option has saved my bacon a number of times. All destructive operations should have a confirm - quitting without saving is one of those things.
-Todd Blanchard
On Nov 15, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Ralph Johnson wrote:
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you.
In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a "Save and quit" option followed by a "Quit" option. The "quit" option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see "save and quit" followed by "quit", it is confusing to have "quit" ask you if you want to save.
Squeak has been this way for a long time.
-Ralph _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
+20
- Bert -
On Nov 17, 2006, at 1:28 , Todd Blanchard wrote:
FWIW, this option has saved my bacon a number of times. All destructive operations should have a confirm - quitting without saving is one of those things.
-Todd Blanchard
On Nov 15, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Ralph Johnson wrote:
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you.
In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a "Save and quit" option followed by a "Quit" option. The "quit" option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see "save and quit" followed by "quit", it is confusing to have "quit" ask you if you want to save.
Squeak has been this way for a long time.
-Ralph _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Le Jeudi 16 Novembre 2006 19:28, Todd Blanchard a écrit :
FWIW, this option has saved my bacon a number of times. All destructive operations should have a confirm - quitting without saving is one of those things.
Not when the option itself is named "Quit without saving", I find.
Al
The option should not be called "Quit without saving", in any language, unless that is what it does.
If there is a command "Save and quit" followed by "Quit", then the confirmation for "Quit" should be something like "Are you sure you want to quit? Quit / Cancel" instead of the confusing "Save changes before quiting? yes/no/cancel".
Or, there should just be a single "quit" command that gives the three options. But that will make some people nervous the first time, because they won't be sure that saving is an option. Though if the command before "quit" is "save", a nervous person will first save and then quit, and discover when they quit that they could have just used the quit command and saved as they were quiting.
I've taught Smalltalk to close to a thousand people, so I have had a lot of experience watching newcomers get confused by little things. There is no reason they should get confused about how to quit.
-Ralph
What can I tell you? Quitting Smalltalk is hard. :-)
On Nov 17, 2006, at 5:56 AM, Ralph Johnson wrote:
The option should not be called "Quit without saving", in any language, unless that is what it does.
If there is a command "Save and quit" followed by "Quit", then the confirmation for "Quit" should be something like "Are you sure you want to quit? Quit / Cancel" instead of the confusing "Save changes before quiting? yes/no/cancel".
Or, there should just be a single "quit" command that gives the three options. But that will make some people nervous the first time, because they won't be sure that saving is an option. Though if the command before "quit" is "save", a nervous person will first save and then quit, and discover when they quit that they could have just used the quit command and saved as they were quiting.
I've taught Smalltalk to close to a thousand people, so I have had a lot of experience watching newcomers get confused by little things. There is no reason they should get confused about how to quit.
-Ralph _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
On Nov 17, 2006, at 13:18 , lanas wrote:
Le Jeudi 16 Novembre 2006 19:28, Todd Blanchard a écrit :
FWIW, this option has saved my bacon a number of times. All destructive operations should have a confirm - quitting without saving is one of those things.
Not when the option itself is named "Quit without saving", I find.
Well the rename it. It's too easy to accidentally hit this item when you really wanted the other.
- Bert -
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:47:27 +0100 "Klaus D. Witzel" klaus.witzel@cobss.com wrote:
Hallo Klaus,
there are 4 possibilities which come to my mind:
1 2 3
None of the above.
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you.
Sehr einfach. So geht's:
On the desktop menu the last entry says:
"Quitter sans enregistrer l'image"
And when you click on that, it asks you if you want to save the image. Try it, you'll see the same.
I've tried with other language settings, and it seens French is quite unique in that matter !
Could someone change that to only "Quitter" and add the three dots like it was suggested ? OR... Make it really quit without saving the image since that's the option right above (I think that'd be the "bäst")
BTW, Polish sieht ganz wie Deutsch aus ! ;-)
And Czech looks a lot like English ! ;-)
Alles gut, Al
beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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lanas -
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