Re: [Newbies] Grafoscopio and the Data Week: Critical code+data literacy practices and pocket infrastructures from/for the Global South
Offray,
I am sorry but I don’t understand what your project is about. The words you use are very precise words that have a technical meaning that I do not possess.
Can you give us a simple example? I am looking for the junior high school version of your explanation.
Sincerely,
Joseph.
Hi Joshep,
Thanks for your interest and sorry for the technicalities. Is some kind of old bad habit from "academy and research" and their ivory towers built with expert languages. I will try to explain myself and provide more technical details in links. It doesn't help not being a native English speaker neither, but I will try my best.
So, lets start with the idea of critical literacy practices. This idea comes, mostly, from adults literacy. In such context, the teaching practices developed with children don't work pretty well (or at all). So the teachers of such practices don't start by teaching the basic of letters and handwriting and syllables compositions and words, as used with children education, or problems about adding numbers or planets names and rotation trajectories. Paulo Freire[1], for example, started with what he call "problemas generadores" (I don't know the English translation, but is about problems that create more problems, usually related with social and emotional issues), like reading the local newspapers or writing/reading letters from/for the loved ones, working such problems with poor people in rural Brasil. In such practices he recognized that there is not such think as a "neutral" education practice, and that education is about empowerment (or not) of the oppressed. So, think in something like that, but instead of using "classical" literacy for the printed world, we use practices related with data and code for young and mature adults. In such endeavor we don't start with the classical (and kind of dumb) "Hello world!" introduction to computing [2], but with social problems and questions: Do we and our politicians monologue or dialogue in social networks? How our public money is spend? How much information release the governments about medicine information[3]? Do you really need to have a lot of "Big Data" to be a critical participant in the "information society"?
Once we have such questions, we start to get the proper vocabulary (coding+data) to express our partial ideas using prototypes. For that, we learn about Smalltalk basis, but instead of learning to create "apps", we learn to create visualizations and to tell stories supported by data. Some visualizations are the classical colored world map, like the one in the Panama Papers example [4], but made with reproducibility in mind. The idea is not only to publish a bitmap (png, jpeg) or vector image (SVG, PDF), but to provide the complete rationale, data and code behind such stories and visualizations. Other visualizations are custom made, to express some kind of issue, like the one about medicines released information[3] or our ways of communication in Twitter[5].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire [2] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/dumb-hello-world [3] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/sdv-infomed [4] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/panama-papers-1 [5] http://mutabit.com/offray/blog/en/entry/ds-twitter-mockup
Despite of not being directly inspired by the theories of Alan Kay or Paulo Freire, I think that my research put some of their ideas into dialogue. What would happen if we put the ideas of Dynabook, started with kids ( and developed in the North) in dialogue with the ideas of Critical Pedagogy, started with adults (and developed in the South) in the current age of data? How new ways of civic participation are created when people learn how to use data, code, visualization and storytelling to talk about civic concerns?
I hope to be clearer, but let me know if I'm still in the Ivory Tower.
Thanks again,
Offray
On 05/02/18 20:24, Joseph Alotta wrote:
Offray,
I am sorry but I don’t understand what your project is about. The words you use are very precise words that have a technical meaning that I do not possess.
Can you give us a simple example? I am looking for the junior high school version of your explanation.
Sincerely,
Joseph. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Offray,
Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group.
All the best,
Ron
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas < offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph.
On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
Hi Joshep,
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Hi Ron,
I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail inbox.
Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we need a users list or setup something like discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is not a warranty).
[1] https://www.discourse.org/ [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
Offray,
Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group.
All the best,
Ron
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net mailto:offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph. On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: > Hi Joshep, _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Hi Offray,
Squeak dev always has been the place to be and newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle on entry.
For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in your mail program.
Please feel free move over, we are not so many in our community that separate lists are needed.
My 2c.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:
Hi Ron,
I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail inbox.
Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we need a users list or setup something like discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is not a warranty).
[1] https://www.discourse.org/ [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
Offray,
Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group.
All the best,
Ron
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net mailto:offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph. On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: > Hi Joshep, _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Hi Offray,
I like the idea of forums. Always have. Did the Manjaro community have trouble with spam? How is it moderated? Email lists seem to be less vulnerable to spam, although we have received some in the past. Forums seem to need constant moderation to ensure they are not invaded by spam. I seem to remember there was a forum way back when. There is a forum interface to the mailing list already: http://forum.world. st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html. What do you think Discourse would add to the community over what we have already?
Also, note there are a few other places where we sort of gather. #IRC #squeak http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/ don't see much going on there. Google Plus Group: https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/ 111117917267462353507. Twitter https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk. Planet Squeak: http://planet.squeak.org/ and https://news.squeak.org/ wow it has been a long time since I made a post!
I imagine someone probably did a slack channel. Yes I was correct: http://squeak.org/community/
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hi Offray,
Squeak dev always has been the place to be and newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle on entry.
For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in your mail program.
Please feel free move over, we are not so many in our community that separate lists are needed.
My 2c.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:
Hi Ron,
I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail inbox.
Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we need a users list or setup something like discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is not a warranty). [1] https://www.discourse.org/ [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
Offray,
Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group.
All the best,
Ron
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas < offray@riseup.net> wrote:
Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph.
On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
Hi Joshep,
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing listBeginners@lists.squeakfoundation.orghttp://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing listBeginners@lists.squeakfoundation.orghttp://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Thanks Ron and Herbert,
I would rater try to improve a "users lists" that filter commits in a dev-list. That's one of the interesting points of systems like discourse: you can create subthreads for particular information and connect or not to them, create hooks and get only the information you are interested in.
Seems that we have plenty of channels and I don't know if one more is going to help with the problem of more fluid communication in the community that helps with dynamics of governance (like voting). In the case of Manjaro, I was already in an old forum that was migrated to discourse, so I don't know a lot about details on managing Spam. Discourse have spam filters activate and you only get to post a lot of information with links, if you have interacted with the community enough, with preset rules. That means that your first post, as a member could have maybe two links, but you can not start to put a lot of links in the same post, unless you gain some reputation, which discourages spammers.
For me the important thing is: can we have a more permanent and fluid conversation that shows the pulse and vitality of this community? If the way to do it is to be in the developers list, filter commits with extra technical info, and having a beginners list with almost no entries, so we are not addressing properly the transitions and middle places between users and developers: you have too much info or too little. More granular information is a place where forums like discourse could help.
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 12:53, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
Hi Offray,
I like the idea of forums. Always have. Did the Manjaro community have trouble with spam? How is it moderated? Email lists seem to be less vulnerable to spam, although we have received some in the past. Forums seem to need constant moderation to ensure they are not invaded by spam. I seem to remember there was a forum way back when. There is a forum interface to the mailing list already: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html. What do you think Discourse would add to the community over what we have already?
Also, note there are a few other places where we sort of gather. #IRC #squeak http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/ http://tunes.org/%7Enef/logs/squeak/ don't see much going on there. Google Plus Group: https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507 https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507. Twitter https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk. Planet Squeak: http://planet.squeak.org/ and https://news.squeak.org/ wow it has been a long time since I made a post!
I imagine someone probably did a slack channel. Yes I was correct: http://squeak.org/community/
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@gmx.net mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net> wrote:
Hi Offray, Squeak dev always has been the place to be and newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle on entry. For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in your mail program. Please feel free move over, we are not so many in our community that separate lists are needed. My 2c. Cheers, Herbert Am 06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:Hi Ron, I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail inbox. Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we need a users list or setup something like discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is not a warranty). [1] https://www.discourse.org/ [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/ Cheers, Offray On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:Offray, Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group. All the best, Ron On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph. On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: > Hi Joshep, _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners> _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Hi Offray,
to make my point more explicit:
IMO our community is small and fragmentation (of communication channels) is not helpful. There are some 'special' concerns like VMDev and Beginners that 'justify' their own channels but most additional Squeak channels have dried out quickly.
Should have said this in the first place instead of giving tips how to mitigate what you seemed to dislike on Squeak dev. :-))
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 06.02.2018 um 20:53 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:
Thanks Ron and Herbert,
I would rater try to improve a "users lists" that filter commits in a dev-list. That's one of the interesting points of systems like discourse: you can create subthreads for particular information and connect or not to them, create hooks and get only the information you are interested in.
Seems that we have plenty of channels and I don't know if one more is going to help with the problem of more fluid communication in the community that helps with dynamics of governance (like voting). In the case of Manjaro, I was already in an old forum that was migrated to discourse, so I don't know a lot about details on managing Spam. Discourse have spam filters activate and you only get to post a lot of information with links, if you have interacted with the community enough, with preset rules. That means that your first post, as a member could have maybe two links, but you can not start to put a lot of links in the same post, unless you gain some reputation, which discourages spammers.
For me the important thing is: can we have a more permanent and fluid conversation that shows the pulse and vitality of this community? If the way to do it is to be in the developers list, filter commits with extra technical info, and having a beginners list with almost no entries, so we are not addressing properly the transitions and middle places between users and developers: you have too much info or too little. More granular information is a place where forums like discourse could help.
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 12:53, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
Hi Offray,
I like the idea of forums. Always have. Did the Manjaro community have trouble with spam? How is it moderated? Email lists seem to be less vulnerable to spam, although we have received some in the past. Forums seem to need constant moderation to ensure they are not invaded by spam. I seem to remember there was a forum way back when. There is a forum interface to the mailing list already: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html. What do you think Discourse would add to the community over what we have already?
Also, note there are a few other places where we sort of gather. #IRC #squeak http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/ http://tunes.org/%7Enef/logs/squeak/ don't see much going on there. Google Plus Group: https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507 https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507. Twitter https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk. Planet Squeak: http://planet.squeak.org/ and https://news.squeak.org/ wow it has been a long time since I made a post!
I imagine someone probably did a slack channel. Yes I was correct: http://squeak.org/community/
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@gmx.net mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net> wrote:
Hi Offray, Squeak dev always has been the place to be and newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle on entry. For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in your mail program. Please feel free move over, we are not so many in our community that separate lists are needed. My 2c. Cheers, Herbert Am 06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:Hi Ron, I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail inbox. Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we need a users list or setup something like discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is not a warranty). [1] https://www.discourse.org/ [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/ Cheers, Offray On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:Offray, Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group. All the best, Ron On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph. On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: > Hi Joshep, _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners> _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Hi Herbert,
I understand. That confirms my initial assertion, when I said that "I changed, but community was kind of the same". I'm not a developer, but some kind of old user coming back (but not a beginner, anymore). I don't think that there is a need for a new list. Maybe just talking here of more advanced topics here will show that beginners change, without becoming devs ;-).
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 17:22, Herbert König wrote:
Hi Offray,
to make my point more explicit:
IMO our community is small and fragmentation (of communication channels) is not helpful. There are some 'special' concerns like VMDev and Beginners that 'justify' their own channels but most additional Squeak channels have dried out quickly.
Should have said this in the first place instead of giving tips how to mitigate what you seemed to dislike on Squeak dev. :-))
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 06.02.2018 um 20:53 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:
Thanks Ron and Herbert,
I would rater try to improve a "users lists" that filter commits in a dev-list. That's one of the interesting points of systems like discourse: you can create subthreads for particular information and connect or not to them, create hooks and get only the information you are interested in.
Seems that we have plenty of channels and I don't know if one more is going to help with the problem of more fluid communication in the community that helps with dynamics of governance (like voting). In the case of Manjaro, I was already in an old forum that was migrated to discourse, so I don't know a lot about details on managing Spam. Discourse have spam filters activate and you only get to post a lot of information with links, if you have interacted with the community enough, with preset rules. That means that your first post, as a member could have maybe two links, but you can not start to put a lot of links in the same post, unless you gain some reputation, which discourages spammers.
For me the important thing is: can we have a more permanent and fluid conversation that shows the pulse and vitality of this community? If the way to do it is to be in the developers list, filter commits with extra technical info, and having a beginners list with almost no entries, so we are not addressing properly the transitions and middle places between users and developers: you have too much info or too little. More granular information is a place where forums like discourse could help.
Cheers,
Offray
On 06/02/18 12:53, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
Hi Offray,
I like the idea of forums. Always have. Did the Manjaro community have trouble with spam? How is it moderated? Email lists seem to be less vulnerable to spam, although we have received some in the past. Forums seem to need constant moderation to ensure they are not invaded by spam. I seem to remember there was a forum way back when. There is a forum interface to the mailing list already: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html. What do you think Discourse would add to the community over what we have already?
Also, note there are a few other places where we sort of gather. #IRC #squeak http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/ http://tunes.org/%7Enef/logs/squeak/ don't see much going on there. Google Plus Group: https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507 https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507. Twitter https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk. Planet Squeak: http://planet.squeak.org/ and https://news.squeak.org/ wow it has been a long time since I made a post!
I imagine someone probably did a slack channel. Yes I was correct: http://squeak.org/community/
All the best,
Ron Teitelbaum
On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@gmx.net mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net> wrote:
Hi Offray, Squeak dev always has been the place to be and newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle on entry. For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in your mail program. Please feel free move over, we are not so many in our community that separate lists are needed. My 2c. Cheers, Herbert Am 06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:Hi Ron, I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail inbox. Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we need a users list or setup something like discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is not a warranty). [1] https://www.discourse.org/ [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/ Cheers, Offray On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:Offray, Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just beginners? I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would enjoy having you there! You would also get more feedback from that group. All the best, Ron On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray@riseup.net <mailto:offray@riseup.net>> wrote: Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph. On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote: > Hi Joshep, _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners> _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>_______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org <mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Herbert König -
Joseph Alotta -
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas -
Ron Teitelbaum