On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:02:47 +0100, Mark Volkmann mark@ociweb.com wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with Smalltalk yet, but I really love what I've seen so far.
I'm curious what experienced Smalltalkers see as some of the reasons why it doesn't attract more attention.
Me thinks that the Smalltalk community is healthy and vibrant--it is "just" a community form one would not expect for Ruby or Python or Perl, etc. To get impression of my impression take a look at what *actually* happened during the *recent* months:
- Exupery (native x86 methods) powers Huemul - Seaside (web++ framework++) powers GLASS - Hydra (multiple parallel .images) powers Croquet .images - Google hires developers with deep Smalltalk experience - two more gods to be worshipped in the VM temple ;) - Squeak powers NewSpeak - new book Squeak by Example (creative commons license) - port of OpenDBX to Squeak (still not on windoze) - port of Squeak/VM to "another" smartphone platform ;) - DrGeo made it to the XO (OLPC) - fresh new subcommunity Pharo - attempt? to port Moose (world class sw analysis) to Squeak - Google hires developers with deep Smalltalk experience - Squeak web site migrated to/powered by Aida/Web Squeak - 4 (four) projects run through 2008's Goggle Summer of Code - the "everybody needs it" Safara from GSoC as yet not in mainstream - the "everybody needs it" Squeak GTK from GSoC as yet not in mainstream - IBM builds Smalltalk IDE inside Eclipse - Google hires developers with deep Smalltalk experience - ESUG 2008 conference draws more attendands than ever
That list is of course incomplete, for example one wants to add the many noobs who joined #squeak and the beginners mailing list.
I do not think that *soo* much is holding back Smalltalk ;)
/Klaus
I heard that google hired developers with deep Smalltalk experience........
On Nov 21, 2008, at 12:28 AM, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:02:47 +0100, Mark Volkmann mark@ociweb.com wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with Smalltalk yet, but I really love what I've seen so far.
I'm curious what experienced Smalltalkers see as some of the reasons why it doesn't attract more attention.
Me thinks that the Smalltalk community is healthy and vibrant--it is "just" a community form one would not expect for Ruby or Python or Perl, etc. To get impression of my impression take a look at what *actually* happened during the *recent* months:
- Exupery (native x86 methods) powers Huemul
- Seaside (web++ framework++) powers GLASS
- Hydra (multiple parallel .images) powers Croquet .images
- Google hires developers with deep Smalltalk experience
- two more gods to be worshipped in the VM temple ;)
- Squeak powers NewSpeak
- new book Squeak by Example (creative commons license)
- port of OpenDBX to Squeak (still not on windoze)
- port of Squeak/VM to "another" smartphone platform ;)
- DrGeo made it to the XO (OLPC)
- fresh new subcommunity Pharo
- attempt? to port Moose (world class sw analysis) to Squeak
- Google hires developers with deep Smalltalk experience
- Squeak web site migrated to/powered by Aida/Web Squeak
- 4 (four) projects run through 2008's Goggle Summer of Code
- the "everybody needs it" Safara from GSoC as yet not in mainstream
- the "everybody needs it" Squeak GTK from GSoC as yet not in
mainstream
- IBM builds Smalltalk IDE inside Eclipse
- Google hires developers with deep Smalltalk experience
- ESUG 2008 conference draws more attendands than ever
That list is of course incomplete, for example one wants to add the many noobs who joined #squeak and the beginners mailing list.
I do not think that *soo* much is holding back Smalltalk ;)
/Klaus
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
Me thinks that the Smalltalk community is healthy and vibrant--it is "just" a community form one would not expect for Ruby or Python or Perl, etc. To get impression of my impression take a look at what *actually* happened during the *recent* months:
Why would one not expect this community for Ruby or Python or Perl? Could you please explain what you mean, for this puzzles me ...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:23:13 +0100, Claus Kick wrote:
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
Me thinks that the Smalltalk community is healthy and vibrant--it is "just" a community form one would not expect for Ruby or Python or Perl, etc. To get impression of my impression take a look at what *actually* happened during the *recent* months:
Why would one not expect this community for Ruby or Python or Perl? Could you please explain what you mean, for this puzzles me ...
There are (almost uncountable ;) many things which shape these communities; perhaps I focus on some of the obvious from a day-to-day perspective:
- starting+using Smalltalk is always starting+using the whole system, there are no parts, in an absolute sense, and there is no way to change that
- the Smalltalker has generally broader knowledge about his *whole* system, think of navigating "implementers of" as an example
- the Smalltalker has generally deeper knowledge about his *whole* system, think of navigating "senders of" as an example
This (and more ;) naturally orients the community along completely different dimensions, beginning with the learning curve, through things you can change+reuse, up to things you can achieve (like VMMaker+Simulator or Etoys or Scratch or Croquet or Moose or DabbleDB or Sophie), with a handful of people, in the Smalltalk community.
/Klaus
beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Claus Kick -
Klaus D. Witzel -
Steven W Riggins