etoys-dev October 2009

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

29 participants
76 discussions

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by YESYES 09 Oct '09

09 Oct '09

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!! Let us know you're listening
by Timothy Falconer 09 Oct '09

09 Oct '09

Hello, If you're reading this message, and you like Etoys, please take a minute and let us know you're listening: http://squeakland.org/squeakers/ We're trying to get a better idea of the size of the Etoys community. Also, please forward the link to other Squeakers that you know. Thank you, Timothy -- Timothy Falconer Squeakland Foundation http://squeakland.org 610-797-3100 -- "Intelligence is what you use when you don't know what to do." ... piaget

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Scriptor layout
by Bert Freudenberg 08 Oct '09

08 Oct '09

Begin forwarded message: > From: Randall Caton <rcaton(a)cnu.edu> > Date: 7. Oktober 2009 01:04:18 MESZ > To: Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de> > Subject: etoys4 > > Dear Bert, > > I know I am supposed to use tracker, but as is often the case I get > a "500 servlet error" when trying to access the tracker. When I view > a script from a project made in etoys3, using the beta etoys4, many > of the tiles are compressed so there is no access to parts of their > function. I have noticed this in other upgrades. This means you have > to spend a lot of time reconstructing your scripts. Is there a way > to fix this for the final version? > > Randy I might have seen this, but with older projects. I thought we did not really change the layout that much between Etoys 3 and 4? - Bert -

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The road ahead
by Bert Freudenberg 07 Oct '09

07 Oct '09

As the current release cycle is nearing an end (yay!) it is time to start discussing where Etoys development should be taken in the next cycle. Our largest user base are the close to a million children using OLPC XO-1 laptops. Existing users are whom we need to support first and foremost, enlarging the user base is second to that for now. IMHO they need a stable system, well documented, and with ample of examples, project ideas, curriculum etc. I could be wrong of course, so we need to find ways to ask them. But unless we hear otherwise, I think development work in the next release cycle should focus on these three areas: * Documentation * Translation * Usability Users (teachers in particular, see Mel's post [*]) do not appreciate arbitrary UI changes. Neither are they helpful to documentation efforts. So any change to the UI should be done only to enhance usability, not simply to make things "prettier". Adding features is not as problematic as changing existing UI (e.g., we plan to add DrGeoII) but we should let the educators guide those. The basic UI (tool bar, halo, flaps, viewers, scriptors etc.) should only see carefully chosen alterations to not get out-of-sync with experience and documentation. To make Etoys more inviting, we could (and maybe should) revamp the Home screen and the example projects. These can be contributed by non-developers (we need to make sure they are MIT licensed, so we can't simply take showcase content). The majority of our users do not speak English as their first language. Having documentation, the Etoys UI, and example content translated to their native languages is of utmost importance. The current huge translation template (POT) needs to be broken up to make it simpler to handle for translators. Also, it would give them guidance what areas they should tackle first (e.g. Etoys tiles are more important to translate than Smalltalk code tools). Projects need a mechanism to export and import translations so they can be translated independently. To help documenters, an idea is to automate taking screenshots. A project could be made that iterates through all tiles, buttons, menus, etc. and does screenshots, saving them under a systematic name. It can also iterate through languages so we have localized screenshots. At the end of a release cycle, this could be used to automatically bring all documentation up-to-date. Speed is an issue as it hampers usability, in particular on the XO-1. The cheapest speed-up we can get is the one we don't have to work on ourselves. That means moving closer to the Squeak.org releases. One major improvement should come from switching to Cog, a new Virtual Machine with considerable speed gains. We need to make our image and projects "closure-safe" for that. We also lost speed - try our current release on an XO vs. the one that was shipped. At least startup is much slower now. It should not be impossible to get that speed back, though it may be hard. I have not heard plans to upgrade the OS in existing OLPC deployments but we should plan for that (and not just rely on the speedier XO-1.5). Anyway, that's just my 0.02 €, to get the discussion going. - Bert - PS: A meta-change is that the "old" developers (Scott, Yoshiki, yours truly) will stay out of actual development as much as possible, and assume more of a mentor role. Development is going to be driven by whatever work is volunteered, screened by the software team (a.k.a. committers). So please keep the contributions coming :) [*] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-September/008448.html

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Re: [etoys-dev] Increase and decrease arrows
by Karl Ramberg 07 Oct '09

07 Oct '09

On 2009-10-05 17:37, K. K. Subramaniam wrote: > On Sunday 04 Oct 2009 9:41:12 pm you wrote: > >> http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-494 >> > Uploaded a patch. It works fine in my latest Etoys image on Linux. Appreciate > if others could test it and let me know if it works for them. > > Subbu > > Hi, I tested and it works in some places. It works on the scale factor, as long as it shows two decimals. If I change it to just show 1 I can not change the number by the arrows anymore. In other tiles like 'forward' it still only changes by a full 1, no decimal place change. Karl

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forum spam
by Timothy Falconer 07 Oct '09

07 Oct '09

Hi everyone, Forum spam has been on the rise in the last week or so. These are likely humans creating accounts, which are then given to spam engines. Just a note to let you know my plan ... 1. I delete spam accounts and soon as I see them, along with their messages from the forums 2. As soon as mail2forum 2.0 gets to "beta" status, I'll be upgrading to PHPBB3, which has "captcha" and better filtering If you know anyone who knows PHP, let them know they can help move mail2forum along: http://mail2forum.com/v20-development/ Take care, Tim -- Timothy Falconer Squeakland Foundation http://squeakland.org 610-797-3100 -- "Intelligence is what you use when you don't know what to do." ... piaget

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Re: [etoys-dev] together again
by Bert Freudenberg 06 Oct '09

06 Oct '09

On 06.10.2009, at 22:04, Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote: > Andreas Raab wrote on Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:58:53 -0700 >> * Create the package structure we find in the trunk > > This means just moving classes and methods from one category to > another, > right? Yes. >> * Compute the number of changes between the Etoys image and trunk > > As a very crude approximation, I compared the categories in > SystemOrganization for a Squeak 3.10.2-7179 image and for the > Etoys-To-Go-4.0.2258-beta image. The first one has 159 categories not > present in the second, while the Etoys one had 120 categories that are > missing from the 3.10 image. They have 108 categories in common. This is partly because the Etoys image did not have Andreas' re- categorization of 3.8 applied (unlike Croquet for example or 3.9). Finding and applying that would get us a step closer I think. > It would be more interesting to look at packages instead, but the > Etoys > image lists only two: FlexibleVocabularies and Connectors. This is just an artifact from how they were loaded initially. They have not been maintained as packages since. - Bert -

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Third release candidate
by Bert Freudenberg 06 Oct '09

06 Oct '09

Etoys4-RC3 is up on http://squeakland.org/download/ in both the Mac installer variant, and as Etoys-To-Go which works on Linux, Mac, and Windows. The Windows installer will follow shortly. Changelog since first release candidate: 4.0.2332 (6 Oct 2009) * third release candidate * updated translations: fr, ja * store reference to previous project when a project is re-uploaded * smaller font size for textual scripts * fix translating of value types and function tiles * fix bearing-to and distance-to in Test pane 4.0.2325 (29 Sep 2009) * second release candidate * updated translations: de, es, fr, ko, mn * updated example projects * attempt to fix the erratic "project can't be saved because of blocks" warning * fix missing languages on the Mac when launched by double-clicking a project * fix lost formatting when copying and pasting text on the Mac * show "Haitian Creole" instead of "ht" in language menu * supply parentheses around 'bearing to' and 'distance to' so expressions can be extended * prevent tool bar from accidental deletion * Mac VM updated to 4.2.2b1: built under 10.6, fix memory leaks, scrolling, serial ports Please test thoroughly, we intend next week's release candidate to be the final one! For Sugar, the deadline for the final 0.86.2 bug-fix release is Thursday the 8th, so it's particularly important to test this under Linux (or even better under Sugar - I updated jhbuild, too, and released rpms). No more 0.86 releases are planned, development will continue on 0.88. And someone please rewrite this in non-geek-speak and announce on squeakland once the Windows installer is up :) - Bert -

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Re: [etoys-dev] together again
by Andreas Raab 06 Oct '09

06 Oct '09

Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote: > Göran Krampe wrote: > >> I agree that it may be premature, but since the discussion was brought >> up I wanted to make it clear that some of us out here don't consider >> ourselves "eToys haters" *nor* do we want an intertangled base. > > Indeed. I think it is good to have these discussions now. I will start > by confessing that I have not looked at the Etoys code to see what the > problem is, so am only repeating what other people have said. Actually, this is *precisely* why I'm saying it's premature to talk about these issues. Neither you, nor Göran, nor Serge, nor I have really any clue about what it entails. Consequently we are only discussing our own prejudices about Etoys. If we want to move this forward we need insights from the Etoys developers. We need someone who can take a high-level census of Etoys and tell us which areas are mostly unchanged, which areas have undergone significant changes, which areas need to be closely investigated. From a practical perspective, one way to move forward would be something along the following lines: * Get MC loaded into the Etoys image (by hook or by crook) * Create the package structure we find in the trunk * Adopt the latest trunk versions as ancestors (to fake heritage) * FixUnderscores where necessary * Compute the number of changes between the Etoys image and trunk Once finished, I think we will find that packages generally fall into one of the following categories: * New: Packages that are in one but not the other * Easy: Less than 100 changes between versions * Hard: Less than 1000 changes between versions * Ouch: More than 1000 changes between versions Based on this we should be able to get a feel for what we're talking about on the highest level. I'm in particular interested in packages that are in one but not the other since they are most likely the ones that create the most unforeseen dependencies (take traits for example or pango rendering). Cheers, - Andreas

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06 Oct '09

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etoys-dev October 2009