etoys-dev August 2009

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

28 participants
68 discussions

Installing Etoys and Squeak on Ubuntu 9.04
by Ricardo Moran 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

Hi, I'm starting to work on Linux, I installed Ubuntu 9.04 and I was trying to install Etoys and Squeak. I should tell you: I am a Windows user with no experience in Linux. I downloaded the EtoysInstaller.deb from squeakland and it worked fine. Then I tried to install squeak following the instructions I found in http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3616. This also worked, I typed squeak in the terminal and Squeak opened. Then I tried to use one of my own images in which I usually work (on Windows), so I opened it using the command "squeakvm". The image worked almost fine, the only problem I found was that the buttons on the "Sugar Navigator Flap" wasn't displayed correctly. Then I tried to open Etoys using the menu "Applications->Education->eToys" but it didn't open anymore. I went to /usr/share/etoys and tried to open the etoys.image with squeakvm and it opened with an error: "A primitive has failed" and the display all wrong (I had to redraw the screen by clicking on "display mode->scale to fit"). I tried reinstalling Etoys but the Package Installer tells me that "A later version is already installed". I suppose the Etoys image needs a different vm but I don't know where to find it. What do you think I should do?

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software pseudo-meet today at 3pm ET
by Timothy Falconer 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

Hi everyone, I'll be "hanging around" the #etoys channel at 3pm ET today (in less than 2 hours), so if you want to chat about upcoming release stuff, stop by. Our official meet will be whenever we choose from the doodle, likely later this week or next week. Tim

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Re: [sq-everyone] etoys suggestions from bill
by Timothy Falconer 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

Added this issue: http://jira.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-312 and http://jira.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-313 On Jul 18, 2009, at 10:52 PM, Milan Zimmermann wrote: > > Without forwarding the "fault", I wonder if some of the problems is > related to > Sugar immaturity, and hardware problems such as "stuck alt key". I > had a > stuck Alt key on my XO and Etoys behavior in this situation was > completely > unpredictable, with lockups one of the prime results. For the > longest time I > did not believe it was the stuck alt key as it was unpredictable. > But once > fixed, things got much better. The other problem is definitely the > touchpad - > I stopped using XO without a mouse. > > What Sugar version these XOs use? > > But we need to go through the system identifying when fonts or "target > clickable areas" should increase. Tim, do you have some concrete > suggestions - > we should turn this into BUG ... > > Also, maybe we (etoys developers) can setup a mechanism (or just a > "process") > of describing how to save a project with errors and send it (ftp/ > http/email) > to Squeakland. > > Commenting inline on some of the issues. > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Re: [sq-everyone] etoys suggestions from bill > Date: June 23, 2009 > From: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki(a)vpri.org> > To: everyone(a)squeakland.org > > Thank you for the comments. Critical comment is always welcome. > > One thing that would have really helped was to know that there is a > kind of emergency stop feature; pressing Alt-. stops all running > scripts, and often breaks out "locked up" situations. > > Other things are fair points. The menu bar once didn't halo but it > was put back (probably for a wrong reason) and things are (still) too > small on XO. > > -- Yoshiki > > At Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:13:53 -0400, > Timothy Falconer wrote: >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: william(a)waveplace.com >> Date: June 22, 2009 9:05:41 PM EDT >> To: Timothy Falconer <timothy(a)squeakland.org> >> Subject: Re: [sq-everyone] software team meet, 22-june-2009 >> >> Hey Tim - >> Read this email after another tough lesson for the teachers with >> eToys. > I'm not sure if the developers realize the >> ramification of user issues in the field. > > Probably not fully, but we have some experiences. I gave the XO to > my fellow > developer, who seemed to be little deliberate in trying to break the > experience , but in any case he managed to make not only Etoys, but > also Sugar > unusable within minutes almost every time. Starting multiple > applications, > clicking randomly, make the system really crawl or stop. I guess > part of it is > due to hardware low power, part due to immaturity. I think already > the later > versions (e.g. Sugar on the stick), are more stable then the XO > default > installations. > >> Today was a lesson in frustration as I was just trying to teach >> a simple >> Test lesson. Everyone was quietly working. After they had some >> time > with it for a while I asked if there were any >> problems. Sure enough everyone had one. When I went to look it >> was > just painful >> >> One project was completely locked up, even after I spent five - >> ten > minutes trying to fix it. Nothing but the >> cursor would move. > > Was the author able to switch to another Sugar application? >> Could not begin to see what was wrong or even save it as the >> most of the > scripts were partially >> off the page and the viewer blocked the keep icon. So I forced >> quit - > loosing everything. > > Alt . (Alt and dot preseed) are sometimes the only way out. Although > I need it > much less with the later Sugar releases and after alt key was > unstuck... > > >> Another teacher had a >> slowly rotating book, which had bogged down the system, >> requiring a slow > and tedious process of trying to switch off >> scripts as they were revealed and disappeared. (The rotating book > blocked the etoys tool bar so no way to get into >> the supply bin for stop all scripts commands.) > > Would it make sense to force the Navigation Bar to stay always up > (unless > exaplicitly requested). What do others think about that? > >> Another project just had minor errors, fixed those and it still >> didn't work. Some more trouble shooting finally revealed that >> the sound > system of the entire XO had ceased working. > > I have experienced this as well, but have no idea where to start. It > seems > Sugar related clearly > >> >> All this took time that could of been spent learning etoys. I >> didn't > even get to the next two computers with >> problems. Everyone was frustrated and fried and it started to >> pour and > they had to head home as the roads get >> pretty bad in the rain - and we all just agreed to meet again >> early in > the morning. >> >> Anyways wrote this suggestion list immediately after. Cutting and > pasting it here - >> >> Am writing from the front line of the eToys battles, in this >> case the > small remote fishing village of Petite Riviere >> Des Nippes in Haiti, where I have been training kids and >> teachers for > the past week. >> >> Believe me when I say that I have witnessed the horrors of eToys >> in the > hands of untrained professionals. >> Specifically those who have never touched a computer before and >> working > with a language other than English. More >> times than I care to remember, I have watched the dream of > constructionism die a cold hard death in a nightmare of >> locked up XOs and scattered and lost tiles and sketches and >> scripts. >> >> First it is imperative for the programmers to actually work with >> eToys > on the XO to get an idea of the problem. > > Most of us do qute a lot (although I admit, not full time myself). I > am sorry > for your frustration. > >> It >> is is much more difficult to use it there than on a PC or Mac. > Everything is smaller and requires much more skill >> to find and manipulate, especially with the XO's less than perfect > trackpad. Plus they should preferably test out >> eToys on the XO by creating a book with at least a dozen pages and > filled with numerous sketches and scripts. (And >> then have a number of those scripts contain errors.) Keep in >> mind that > a PC or Mac is many many times more >> powerful and can take up that slack - but that scenario on an XO >> is > painful. > > I have books with 6-7 pages with flashing and turning objects and > they run > quite well on the XO. I wonder if during the traing, is possible, > when you > experience a problem to save the project and send it to etoys-dev? > > I will as I said create a "personal stress test projects and > process" for > Etoys on future Sugar releases. Hope that will uncover some problems > > >> >> So first off there needs to be an emergency save and exit keyboard > command - when everything goes to hell and eToys >> locks up. > > As above - Alt and dot pressed at the same time is sometimes the > only way out > - please try it and let us know. > >> As the viewer is over the keep and exit icons when it's up, >> that's not > an option. Also - sometimes you >> can close and save eToys from the sugar frame, but usually not. > > Hmmm this seems Sugar or speed related. But I have seen it as well. > What > version of Sugar these XOs use? > >> >> Also the active area for clicking the Halo icons needs to be >> larger. As > it is it is too easy to miss the icon - >> thus closing Halo and having to start over. The heading arrow is > especially hard to click. Also when you click >> with left button by mistake to open the halo - you are suddenly >> in pick > up mode and need to click the left button >> again to get out of it so you can then click the right button. >> Would be > nice if the right button could just cut >> in. > > > I am not I understand but think this would prevent regular mouse use > for other > situations > >> Also - manipulating the halo icons requires switching back to >> the left > button. Would be nice if either left >> or right button worked worked for that. >> >> As for the book. Difficult to impart the pain I've gone through >> because > of that removable navigation bar. > > This is corrected in latest Etoys release. > >> Takes >> just one wrong click to remove it from the book. In theory you >> could > re-embed it again, but that too is fraught >> with danger. One it's a pain to explain and do - specially for >> a kid. > Plus the last time I did it, it only let me >> embed it to a page, not to the book. So as soon as you turned >> the page, > it was goodbye to the navigation bar - as >> well as to ever being able to turn the page again - thus >> essentially > destroying the book. > > Fortunately, this should no longer be a problem in the latest Etoys > release. > The question is how to get it on your XOs... > >> >> On that same note, if you right click the eToys main navigation >> bar, you > get the halo along with the delete icon. >> If you then accidently click the delete icon, the main >> navigation bar is > deleted. Why in God's holy name is this >> even possible? What purpose does this serve, other than tears >> for the > child and to drive people like me insane >> while trying to rescue the project? > > This is in spirit of "authoring always on". But I agree with you. > There should > be na *option* to never remove the Navigation Bar - another BUG > candidate? > >> >> Anyways I have many, many more suggestions from the field to >> make eToys > better, but for now these are the ones to >> address right away. >> >> It is important to keep in mind the circumstances that etoys >> will be > used under. It's not always an air conditioned >> classroom filled with new Macs. Instead it may be a hot humid, >> cramped > and falling apart area with no electricity >> or lights, with kids and teachers fighting frustration as they >> try and > make it all work on a tiny, low powered XO. >> To make the dream work for them, eToys has to become less about >> the > challenge of physically making it work and more >> about the challenge of discovering what they can do with it. > > Thanks for you feedback, we need to hear it, good and bad. > > Milan > >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------

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Embedding Etoys in E-Books
by Bert Freudenberg 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

According to his latest blog post, Sayamindu extended Sugar's Read activity with various interactive content, including embedding Etoys in it ... http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/2009/08/12/braindump-on-ebooks/ - Bert -

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Release notes
by Bert Freudenberg 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

We/someone should start working on release notes. The previous ones (for 3.0) are here: http://squeakland.org/download/releaseNotes.jsp Since these are mostly aimed at users, maybe the edu team should write the bulk of it? I think the Big New Thing in 4.0 that needs to be communicated very clearly is both the finishing of the re-licensing, and the switch to a community development process lead by the Squeakland foundation. On the technical side we settled on the 1200x900 virtual resolution, but other than that it's almost just bug fixes. To aid writing the notes I made a change log going back to the previous Squeakland release (3.0): http://svn.squeakland.org/installers/NEWS I compiled this mostly from my OLPC release log. We have various logs now with varying degrees of detail: * for users (matches what I send as release announcements) http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/public_rpms/joyride/ChangeLog * for developers (edited to one-line summaries, added support file changes too) http://etoys.laptop.org/src/NEWS (this is actually generated from http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ etoys.spec and goes back to 2006) * raw changeset comments (does not include changes outside image) http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.3.2 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.3.1 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.3.0 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.2.3 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.2.2 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.2.1 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.2.0 http://etoys.laptop.org/src/ChangeLog.1.0 We should start consolidating all of our various developer sites after the release. - Bert -

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Documentation format.
by Karl Ramberg 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

Hi, I have used may parts of the system and could write some documentation, but I was wondering if we should have a format, or style for these ? Do you have any suggestions or know some prior art/ documentation we could be inspired by. Karl

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Re: [squeak-dev] Etoys-to-go goes AWOL?
by Bert Freudenberg 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

On 10.08.2009, at 03:41, K. K. Subramaniam wrote: > Hi, > > I got a SVN error today while updating: > "svn: Cannot replace a directory from within" > > What happened to Etoys-To-Go.app SVN at svn.squeakland.org/ > installers/? There > is a Etoys-To-Go/ directory but it has only a few launcher files. > Has it been > merged into Etoys.app? "svn log" is your friend: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r230 | bf | 2009-08-07 12:13:32 +0200 (Fri, 07 Aug 2009) | 1 line Rename Etoys-To-Go.app to Etoys-To-Go ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r224 | bf | 2009-08-06 23:28:32 +0200 (Thu, 06 Aug 2009) | 1 line Etoys-To-Go: undelete etoys.sh ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r223 | bf | 2009-08-06 23:25:09 +0200 (Thu, 06 Aug 2009) | 1 line Etoys-To-Go: remove files that are identical to Etoys ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Would be cool to post SVN commit messages to etoys-notify ... Tim? So yes, I removed all files that are identical between Etoys.app and Etoys-To-Go.app. This only leaves one file for each platform (Mac, Windows, Unix [*]). Also, there is an "makeEtoysToGo" script that creates Etoys-To-Go.app and zips it for easy download. I even linked it from http://wiki.squeakland.org/display/sq/Etoys+To+Go ;) - Bert - [*] I put in a mechanism to support other Unices than i686-Linux, but no other Unix VMs have been bundled yet. Contributions welcome.

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Fwd: Etoys-To-Go-4.0.2253-beta slow when a viewer is open
by Ricardo Moran 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

I was just testing and I noticed something weird: I have a script running at 100 ticks per second, then I open a viewer and the script slows down, then I click in the viewer title and keep the mouse down and the script starts running faster! It also happens if I keep the mouse down in any of the buttons of the sugar flap or the viewer. In fact, it also happens if I drag a button out of the Supplies flap and I keep the mouse down on it. I hope this helps fixing the problem. Cheers. On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran(a)gmail.com>wrote: > I've just tried the Etoys-latest-Beta-ToGo on Windows and I noticed that > the car script in the clouds project gets slower when I open a viewer. This > also happens with any other script with a ticking rate greater than 25. I > don't know what is causing this but it used to work in earlier versions: > I've tried Squeakland-OLPC 2177, etoys3.1 update 2177, etoys4.0 update 2192 > and neither of the above have this problem. I don't know if this also > happens in Linux or Mac os.

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Re: [etoys-dev] Squeakfests were incredible (see for yourself)
by Timothy Falconer 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

You might try: tue.2 - North Carolina - Christopher Gordon and wed.1 - USeIT - Sridhar Narayan These are for middle school, but the results show a wide range in a larger school setting. On Aug 20, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Wow tons there! I'm implementing Sugar on a Stick in a K-5 school > in Boston. Is there any parts of these videos you especially > recommend to me to help me learn more about eToys? > > Thanks > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Timothy Falconer <timothy(a)squeakland.org > > wrote: > As I write this, I'm flying home from Squeakfest USA. Sitting here, > staring at my laptop, I'm completely unable to find appropriate > words to describe the magic and friendship of the last few weeks. > So many passionate talks, so many stirring examples, so many last > minute details and surprises. > > I'm tired. That much is clear. Blame it on three conferences in > four weeks and roughly fifteen thousand miles of travel in between. > Were it not for my many Squeaker traveling companions, I'd have > curled up to hibernate long ago. Truly the best part of the last > month has been the company I've kept: Rita, Yoshiki, Marta, Kim, > Scott, Alex, Bert, Ted, Bill, Randy, both Kathleens, Avigail, and > Milan. Sharing the adventure with people of such talent and humor > has truly been an embarrassment of riches. > > As for the presentations, workshops, and hallway talks, there's just > too much to say. With dozens of sessions between the two > Squeakfests, my mind's a blur with memories of enthusiasm and > insight, along with strengthened motivation to support and expand > our vibrant Etoys community. > > Rather than summarize my recollections, I'll instead point you to > the video on the Squeakland website (http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/#cat865 > ). Scroll down to Squeakfest Brasil and Squeakfest USA. We managed > to capture nearly all of Squeakfest USA on our live webcast feed, > though we lost the first half of the presentation from South Korea. > Also, the final roundtable wasn't posted at the request of one of > the participants. My apologies for the audio problems on the first > morning. If you start at the beginning, know that the sound does > get better. Also, if the video screen is at times too hard to read, > the blame rests with the web stream, which reduced quality to > improve bandwidth. We will be posting better video from both events > in the future, particularly of the children's workshop, so stay tuned. > > I'd like to give a special thanks to Rita Freudenberg, our education > director, who earned the "most traveled" award for her trips from > Germany to both Brazil and Los Angeles. When you total her air > distance, she flew more than 40,000 kilometers (25,000 miles), which > means she effectively circled the globe for Squeakland in the last > month. Her insight, passion, and hard work in the last eight months > were instrumental in both Squeakfests. As with her husband Bert, > her continuing efforts on behalf of the Etoys community are > unparalleled. Also a big thanks to Marta, Bruno, Kim, and Kathryn > for tending to the many details of both conferences. Your hard work > really showed. Most of all, I'd like to thank everyone at > Viewpoints Research Institute for their time and talent in the last > year. Your guidance has greatly helped Squeakland Foundation as we > take and carry the Etoys torch into the future. > > Take care, > Timothy > > > Videos of both Squeakfests: > http://squeakland.org/resources/audioVisual/#cat865 > > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > etoys-dev(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline(a)SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax

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forum spam
by Bert Freudenberg 31 Aug '09

31 Aug '09

This looks like another spam effort to me. - Bert - On 11.08.2009, at 07:06, rogerwillson wrote: > Thank you Teefal and Sidney, > I am Roger Willson, > I like the information you shared. I exstreamly thanking you. Be > connected with me and help after this time also. > > > > Mind Games > > > > > -------------------- m2f -------------------- > > (from forum) > http://squeakland.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=10104#10104 > > -------------------- m2f -------------------- > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > squeakland(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland

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etoys-dev August 2009