etoys-dev August 2009

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

28 participants
68 discussions

Squeakfest USA schedule & invitation
by Timothy Falconer 05 Aug '09

05 Aug '09

> On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:50 AM, Rita Freudenberg wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> the schedule for Squeakfest USA is now online! Have a look at it >> here: >> >> http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/usa/schedule/ >> >> Registration is still open here: >> >> http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/usa/register/ On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:19 AM, Scott Wallace wrote: > > For squeak-dev readers who may not have been enticed to follow the > urls Rita provides above, and who perhaps are not much focused on > education or etoys, it bears mentioning that: > > -- Among the attendees at Squeakfest USA next week will be Andreas > Raab and Eliot Miranda. > > -- Eliot is presenting a session entitled "Making Squeak Etoys > Faster." > > -- Alan Kay is giving the keynote. > > -- Yoshiki, Ted, Takashi, Ian, and Kim of course will be there. > > -- The Squeak Etoys community needs serious volunteer effort from > experienced Smalltalk programmers in order to evolve and explain and > enrich the system. Quite possibly, the community needs *you*. > > -- It's hard to imagine what other Smalltalk programming effort > could have such far-reaching impact. Thanks to the presence of > Etoys on the olpc, the number of computers in the world which have > Squeak installed on them is now huge. So people who contribute > software effort to the evolving Squeak Etoys image will be touching > the lives of millions of children and other worthy users over the > next couple of years. > > -- (And for those who don't know: Squeak Etoys is a full-scale 3.8- > based Squeak image, not a stripped-down or dumbed-down system. With > a few changes of Preferences it will be seen to be a familiar, > undiluted, license-clean, Squeak 3.8, with the addition of several > years of mostly olpc-oriented development.) > > > So if you're in the area and if you think you might be interested in > contributing to a Squeak system already found on nearly a million > computers worldwide, please join us at Squeakfest -- next week > Monday through Wednesday, on the UCLA campus. > > -- Scott >

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That annoying bug
by Scott Wallace 05 Aug '09

05 Aug '09

Hi, Alex, In Porto Alegre last week you showed Yoshiki and me a repeatable bug that keeps showing up in a kind of demo of etoys that you like to give which happens to use a ticking script that deploys the "look like" tile. The bug occurs when a copy or sibling of an object which has a currently-ticking script which is using the "look like" command is "torn off" from the object by dragging from the object's green "duplication" handle, with (for sibling) or without (for simple 'duplicate') the shift-key down. I've created a JIRA tracker ticket for this: http://jira.immuexa.com/browse/SQ-288 ... and have also provided a possible bug-fix: http://jira.immuexa.com/secure/attachment/13662/lookLikeBug-sw.1.cs.gz which I also attach herewith. If you get a chance (I know you're on vacation :-)) please file this in to an up-to-date Squeak-etoys dev image and see whether this fixes the problem you've seen and whether it introduces any new issues. Thanks, -- Scott

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OT: Unicode vs ISO-2022-JP (was Re: Fonts)
by Edward Cherlin 05 Aug '09

05 Aug '09

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima<yoshiki(a)vpri.org> wrote: > At Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:20:45 -0700, > Edward Cherlin wrote: >> >> > Mine is rendering and retransmitting Japanese mixed with Hangul >> > correctly in ISO-2022-JP-2 (defined in RFC 1554 and supports mixed >> > Japanese and Chinese text nicely). As Bert wrote, if you are reading >> > it through the forums gateway, that may be the problem. >> >> Can you send to this list in Unicode? A lot of software doesn't >> support ISO-2022-JP correctly in any form. It is a large and complex >> standard, almost never implemented in full. > > There are a fewer software that supports ISO-2022-JP-2 for various > reasons, but it is still a member of ISO-2022 family, which a > reasonable emailer should support. That's like saying a Python 2.6 interpreter should be happy with Python 3.0. Nobody supports all of ISO-2022. And as far as I know, nobody outside Japan supports this particular insular national non-standard. http://unicode.org/faq/han_cjk.html Q: I have heard there are problems in Japanese and other East Asian mapping tables. Where can I find information about these problems? "Sometimes the standard is ill defined, and each vendor has a choice in how to implement the Unicode mapping table...Implementations of ISO 2022 encodings like ISO-2022-JP differ not only in the mapping tables for the sub-encodings but also in the supported sets of escape sequences and their invocation pattern." > And, because vast majority of > (pretty much "virtually all") email traffic in Japan use ISO-2022-JP > (which is the standard anyway); Not any more. > so I'd send emails with some Japanese > characters in ISO-2022-JP. Regardless of whether the rest of us can read them? And regardless of the fact that Unicode UTF-8 is the international standard? > Anybody who wants to communicate in email > in Japanese should use an emailer that supports ISO-2022-JP. For shame. Anybody who wants to communicate in email in more than one language should use Unicode UTF-8. > And > anybody who wants to talk about the glyph differences in Japanese and > Korean (if "plain text" is preferred) would get better results with an > emailer that supports ISO-2022-JP-2. Nonsense. You can't claim that you can reliably see glyph differences in plain text, when you don't know what fonts the recipient uses. When you want to discuss glyphs, send pictures. All right, now I claim that *you* are an unwitting member of the cultural conspiracy of Japanese Supremacists, for insisting on national standards over the international standard in an international discussion. You have been misled by the Japanese Ultranationalist echo chamber. >> How widely is ISO-2022-JP-2 implemented? I have never heard of it >> before. Certainly Firefox does not support it separately from >> ISO-2022-JP. > > It doesn't have to be separated entry for ISO-2022-JP and > ISO-2022-JP-2. Nonsense. They are _different_. > If you save my email as it is to a file, open the file > with Firefox by specifying file://... and change the encoding to > ISO-2022-JP, Firefox certainly display it correctly. Absolutely not. I tried it. And it is completely foolish of you to claim such a thing without evidence. >> > But you know that there is discrepancy between >> > Unicode claim and practice. Like the round-trip conversion guarantee, >> > when the Unicode consortium cannot provide a standard mapping table and >> > the claim is false. I have sources that say otherwise. What is your source? http://www.unicode.org/faq/han_cjk.html Q: I have heard that UTF-8 does not support some Japanese characters. Is this correct? A: There is a lot of misinformation floating around about the support of Chinese, Japanese and Korean (CJK) characters. The Unicode Standard supports all of the CJK characters from JIS X 0208, JIS X 0212, JIS X 0221, or JIS X 0213, for example, and many more. This is true no matter which encoding form of Unicode is used: UTF-8, UTF-16, or UTF-32. Unicode supports over 70,000 CJK characters right now, and work is underway to encode further additions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0208#ISO.2FIEC_10646_and_Unicode ISO/IEC 10646 and Unicode The kanji set of JIS X 0208 is among the original source standards for the Han unification in ISO/IEC 10646 (UCS) and Unicode. Every kanji in JIS X 0208 corresponds to its own code point in UCS/Unicode’s Basic Multilingual Plane (BMP). The non-kanji in JIS X 0208 also correspond to their own code points in the BMP. >> The round-trip conversion guarantee does not include all prior >> standards. There is a list. You would have to provide specifics (which >> we could better discuss offline) for me to comment on the details. > > Hmm. JIS X 0208 was the national standard and predates Unicode. National, yes, standard, not exactly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0208 "Even though there are provisions in the JIS X 0208:1997 standard concerning compatibility, at the present time, it is generally considered that this standard neither certifies compatibility nor is it an official manufacturing standard that amounts to a declaration of self-compatibility.[1] Consequently, de facto, JIS X 0208-“compatible” products are not considered to exist. Terminology such as “conformant” (準拠?) and “corresponding” (対応?) is included in JIS X 0208, but the semantics of these terms vary from person to person." http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0208 かつてはJIS X 0208:1997の規格票には適合性について規定されているにもかかわらず、この規格は適合性認証または自己適合宣言の対象となる製品規格ではないと考えられていた[1]。だが2009年現在では経済産業省および日本工業標準調査会が「国がＪＩＳマーク表示制度の対象となる商品等を限定する指定商品制を廃止し、認証可能なＪＩＳ製品規格がある製品が対象となります」と明言している[2]ため、適合性について規定のある JIS X 0208:1997 も適合性認証または自己適合宣言の対象となると考えられる。 >> > But anyway, the discussion here is whether you can tell the CJK >> > languages supported by a font by looking at its name or not. And >> > answer is no. This turns out not to be the case in the case of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean that I was talking about. Actually, it is Yes on Linux and Mac, No only on Windows. >> True for Windows. I blame Microsoft. > > "Deja-Vu" is French; As a Unicode font of wide alphabetic coverage but no CJK, it is out of scope for this discussion. > the answer to the original question is no and Answered above. > Blaming Microsoft doesn't help there. Why ever not? They are the ones messing us up, both with their shoddy development practices and their illegal monopoly. The sooner Linux takes over, the better. > -- Yoshiki -- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)

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Squeakfest schedule now online!
by Rita Freudenberg 04 Aug '09

04 Aug '09

Hi everyone, the schedule for Squeakfest USA is now online! Have a look at it here: http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/usa/schedule/ Registration is still open here: http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/usa/register/ Rita Freudenberg rita(a)squeakland.org

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greetings from Squeakfest Brasil!
by Timothy Falconer 04 Aug '09

04 Aug '09

Greetings from Porto Alegre, Brasil! As I write this from breakfast, the sun is coming up over the city. I'll soon be joined by the ten of us who have traveled here to represent Squeakland Foundation and our respective Etoys organizations. Most of us flew in yesterday, then met last night for a wonderful dinner hosted by Intel, one of the conference sponsors. It was very nice seeing everyone last night. While we speak frequently together through Skype and Qwaq, there's nothing quite like meeting in person. At dinner we had time to discuss ours lives outside Etoys, getting to know each other in a way that's much harder to do through the Internet. Today should be quite a day. At this point, more than 280 people have registered for the conference. Given that the main conference room seats 250, it might be standing room only. We plan to chat throughout the conference on Etoys chat channel (http://chat.squeakland.org ), which you can read later at the chat log (http://squeakland.org/sm/storybot ). Stop by and say hello so you can be part of the event, from wherever you happen to be now. Have a look at the schedule (http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/brasil/schedule/ ) to follow along. We'll be getting the English translation of the schedule up soon. And remember, we're following up this conference in a few weeks with another at UCLA in Los Angeles. Please come join us there. You can register (http://squeakland.org/squeakfest/usa/register/) on the Squeakfest USA website. Special thanks to Marta Voelcker and the rest of her team for organizing this event. Their hard work really shows.

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Experimenting msgctxt supprort (SQ-139)
by Korakurider 04 Aug '09

04 Aug '09

Hi all. For http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-139 , I am playing with prototype of msgctxt support in Etoys and want to discuss with you about this. Changesets: 1) trnCtxCore-KR msgctxt support for translation engine 2) transCtxSelector-KR To use selector name of method that sender of #translated and #translatedNoop as msgctxt 3) transCtxExplicit-KR #translatedWithContext: and #translatedNoopWithContext: -- variant of #translated and #translatedNoop with manually specified msgctxt 4) Using #translatedWithCtx: and #translatedNoopWithContext. ex1VocaCore-KR ex2Voca-KR ex3Sound-KR ex4Halo-KR ex5Parts-KR **How to try it: 1) Build experimental image 1.1) Grab fresh developer image and update to the latest. 1.2) Apply changesets 1)-4) to the image 1.3) Download the latest PO file for you language from http://translate.sugarlabs.org/ 1.4) Switch locale to your language. 1.5) Open LanguageEditor and load the PO of 1.3) with "gettext import" functionality. 2) Generate PO with msgctxt Evaluate this: GetTextExporter2 new exportTranslator: (InternalTranslator newLocaleID: LocaleID current). Generated PO is at po/etoys/$(LANG).po under your image. 3) Save image and exit. 4) Explore and edit PO 4.1) Generated PO is like this: #: Morphic-Kernel,_Morph>>additionsToViewerCategoryBasic msgctxt "Morph>>additionsToViewerCategoryBasic" msgid "y" msgstr " (... some translation ...)" You could see new statement "msgctxt" with name of selector where the string is located. If same string has multiple occurrences, each has its msgctxt/msgid specification. and you could supply different translation for each occurrences. 4.2) compile MO msgfmt -o etoys.mo yourpofile and place etoys.mo to locale/$(LANG)/LC_MESSAGES under your image. 5) restart Etoys with the changes, switch to your language, and check how translation is executed. **Manually specifying msgctxt For some strings with #translatedNoop, #translated is applied in other location and "selector as msgctxt" doesn't work. It is needed to manually specify msgctxt. "What as msgctxt" needs to be negotiated between providers(#translatedNoopWithContext:) and consumers(#translatedWithContext:). Source code become ugly because there are many occurrences of such use case. But I couldn't think of better idea. /Korakurider

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Spam or clueless?
by Bert Freudenberg 03 Aug '09

03 Aug '09

http://forums.squeakland.org/viewtopic.php?t=1728 - Bert -

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Wiki Spaces help for new users
by Frederick Grose 01 Aug '09

01 Aug '09

After joining the Confluence site, upon login, a new user is taken to a dashboard with no 'spaces' or instructions for adding one. Upon clicking a link like http://confluence.immuexa.com/display/sq/Development, an error appears, "The page you were trying to reach does not exist. You may want to try a search, or browse the site to find the page you were looking for." Thank you, --Fred

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etoys-dev August 2009