I have looked at a couple of tutorials for Morphic but they are pretty low level. Is there a guide or a framework I can look at for writing windows that you would typically expect to see in a corporate application environment?
There are a couple of projects that are porting GTK and wxWidgets to squeak, they are called squeakGTK http://squeakgtk.pbwiki.com/, and wxSqueakhttp://www.wxsqueak.org/. I personally have never gotten either of them to work on my Fedora 9 computer, but, on Windows, I have run wxSqueak.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Roger Thedog jeff@gingertom.com wrote:
I have looked at a couple of tutorials for Morphic but they are pretty low level. Is there a guide or a framework I can look at for writing windows that you would typically expect to see in a corporate application environment? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Windows-tp18974312p18974312.html Sent from the Squeak - Beginners mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Roger Thedog jeff@gingertom.com wrote:
I have looked at a couple of tutorials for Morphic but they are pretty low level. Is there a guide or a framework I can look at for writing windows that you would typically expect to see in a corporate application environment?
Morphic is a bit ugly (visually and architecturally) for creating a corporate application. You could, in theory, do it, but I've never had fun using Morphic directly. I use ToolBuilder instead.
Like David Zmick said, wxSqueak and GTK for Squeak exist. I don't know much about them.
The best option, using Squeak, is to look at Seaside for making web-based applications. http://www.seaside.st/. Web based applications seem to be all the craze these days.
Otherwise, for a commercial application with a real GUI rather than a web-based one(*), it's probably better to use a commercial Smalltalk. http://www.smalltalk.org/ has a list of them. I've heard that VisualWorks is quite good, although other people may suggest others.
Gulik. (*) The implication that web-based GUIs are fake is my opinion only.
I'd give wxSqueak a try if you want to stick with Squeak. There's a new version, 0.5.1 at www.wxsqueak.org, that runs as promised right out of the box on Windows. Make sure to open the image with the provided VM if you have associated file names on Windows. Then, go to the "Windows" Transcript "Window" menu, select "Demo," and marvel at all the work that has been done! Rob
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Michael van der Gulik mikevdg@gmail.comwrote:
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Roger Thedog jeff@gingertom.com wrote:
I have looked at a couple of tutorials for Morphic but they are pretty low level. Is there a guide or a framework I can look at for writing windows that you would typically expect to see in a corporate application environment?
Morphic is a bit ugly (visually and architecturally) for creating a corporate application. You could, in theory, do it, but I've never had fun using Morphic directly. I use ToolBuilder instead.
Like David Zmick said, wxSqueak and GTK for Squeak exist. I don't know much about them.
The best option, using Squeak, is to look at Seaside for making web-based applications. http://www.seaside.st/. Web based applications seem to be all the craze these days.
Otherwise, for a commercial application with a real GUI rather than a web-based one(*), it's probably better to use a commercial Smalltalk. http://www.smalltalk.org/ has a list of them. I've heard that VisualWorks is quite good, although other people may suggest others.
Gulik. (*) The implication that web-based GUIs are fake is my opinion only.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
A good commercial smalltalk, that you can get for free, but, the free version is not licensed for commercial use, is, VisualWorks smalltalk by Cincom. I think it looks pretty good also, on windows anyway, on anything else, it doesn't look great.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Rob Rothwell r.j.rothwell@gmail.comwrote:
I'd give wxSqueak a try if you want to stick with Squeak. There's a new version, 0.5.1 at www.wxsqueak.org, that runs as promised right out of the box on Windows. Make sure to open the image with the provided VM if you have associated file names on Windows. Then, go to the "Windows" Transcript "Window" menu, select "Demo," and marvel at all the work that has been done! Rob
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Michael van der Gulik mikevdg@gmail.comwrote:
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Roger Thedog jeff@gingertom.com wrote:
I have looked at a couple of tutorials for Morphic but they are pretty low level. Is there a guide or a framework I can look at for writing windows that you would typically expect to see in a corporate application environment?
Morphic is a bit ugly (visually and architecturally) for creating a corporate application. You could, in theory, do it, but I've never had fun using Morphic directly. I use ToolBuilder instead.
Like David Zmick said, wxSqueak and GTK for Squeak exist. I don't know much about them.
The best option, using Squeak, is to look at Seaside for making web-based applications. http://www.seaside.st/. Web based applications seem to be all the craze these days.
Otherwise, for a commercial application with a real GUI rather than a web-based one(*), it's probably better to use a commercial Smalltalk. http://www.smalltalk.org/ has a list of them. I've heard that VisualWorks is quite good, although other people may suggest others.
Gulik. (*) The implication that web-based GUIs are fake is my opinion only.
-- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
David Zmick wrote:
A good commercial smalltalk, that you can get for free, but, the free version is not licensed for commercial use, is, VisualWorks smalltalk by Cincom. I think it looks pretty good also, on windows anyway, on anything else, it doesn't look great.
If you are on Windows or Linux, you could also try VisualAge from Instantiations. Or Dolphin Smalltalk from Object-Arts, if you are on Windows.
Claus
Claus Kick wrote:
If you are on Windows or Linux, you could also try VisualAge from Instantiations. Or Dolphin Smalltalk from Object-Arts, if you are on Windows. Claus
I played around with Visualage when I was looking at Smalltalk the first time around. I was quite shocked to see that it's for sale for 7000USD. The original is still downloadable from IBM and is free. The only problem I had with that was that I couldn't get the documentation server to work in Linux.
$7K sounds about right. VW with Envy was in that range as well. As was Gemstone.
I bet their commercial systems for big customers are still expensive.
That's why I was so excited when Squeak came out as it was the first open-source Smalltalk that felt like Smalltalk.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Roger Thedog jeff@gingertom.com wrote:
Claus Kick wrote:
If you are on Windows or Linux, you could also try VisualAge from Instantiations. Or Dolphin Smalltalk from Object-Arts, if you are on Windows. Claus
I played around with Visualage when I was looking at Smalltalk the first time around. I was quite shocked to see that it's for sale for 7000USD. The original is still downloadable from IBM and is free. The only problem I had with that was that I couldn't get the documentation server to work in Linux.
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Windows-tp18974312p18997459.html Sent from the Squeak - Beginners mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Roger Thedog wrote:
Claus Kick wrote:
If you are on Windows or Linux, you could also try VisualAge from Instantiations. Or Dolphin Smalltalk from Object-Arts, if you are on Windows. Claus
I played around with Visualage when I was looking at Smalltalk the first time around. I was quite shocked to see that it's for sale for 7000USD.
I *thought* that there was a "free for personal use" license involved somewhere, but I checked and figured that I mixed up Instantiations and Cincom.
You are right, however, the price is rather high. Thing is, VisualAge is rather well-documented (but rather expensive) whereas Dolphin is cheap and great to use, once you wrap your head around the differences.
The original is still downloadable from IBM and is free. The only problem I had with that was that I couldn't get the documentation server to work in Linux.
It is? Could you please provide a URL? :)
Claus
Claus Kick wrote:
It is? Could you please provide a URL? :)
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?&uid=swg24013971 ...or search google with: ibm visualage smalltalk download
Also if you start here:
http://www.instantiations.com/VAST/index.html
I think you can find a download that is free to develop with and pay for when you sell your program. I am not sure about making programs for your personal use or a company making programs for their internal use.
Lou ----------------------------------------------------------- Louis LaBrunda Keystone Software Corp. SkypeMe callto://PhotonDemon mailto:Lou@Keystone-Software.com http://www.Keystone-Software.com
Roger Thedog wrote:
Claus Kick wrote:
It is? Could you please provide a URL? :)
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?&uid=swg24013971 ...or search google with: ibm visualage smalltalk download
Ah, thanks, I tried to find it via "visual age smalltalk download" only.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 3:28 AM, Roger Thedog jeff@gingertom.com wrote:
I have looked at a couple of tutorials for Morphic but they are pretty low level. Is there a guide or a framework I can look at for writing windows that you would typically expect to see in a corporate application environment?
You might find it useful to check out the work being done by the Pinesoft.co.uk guys - they've put a lot of work into improving the appearance of morphs to allow them to build an attractive customer-facing application. There are a few posts on the UI mailing list (http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/ui/) that indicate what they're up to, and http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005 has more info, including screenshots.
Cheers, Michael
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Roger Thedog