Beginners September 2006

beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org

56 participants
69 discussions

Why Squeak is so sloooow?
by Antonio San. 22 Sep '06

22 Sep '06

Here is my squeak version: ~$ squeak -version 3.9-7 #5 Mon Apr 24 20:07:28 PDT 2006 gcc 3.3.5 Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021] Linux vps.piumarta.com 2.4.20-021stab028.18.777-enterprise #1 SMP Wed Sep 14 19:34:46 MSD 2005 i686 GNU/Linux default plugin location: /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-7/*.so ...And it is not a feeling, you can see perfectly how all go slower. --- beginners-request(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org escribió: > Send Beginners mailing list submissions to > beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > beginners-request(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > beginners-owner(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Beginners digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad Fuller) > 2. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Milan > Zimmermann) > 3. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad Fuller) > 4. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (David > Shaffer) > 5. RE: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Ramon Leon) > 6. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Milan > Zimmermann) > 7. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Milan > Zimmermann) > 8. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (cummij(a)rpi.edu) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:26:36 -0700 > From: Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org>, Squeak-Dev > <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512E76C.2010102(a)sonaural.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: > > Antonio, > > > > If you evaluate the following (and print-it): > > > > | a b | > > a := FloatArray new: (16 * 1024*1024). > > b := FloatArray new: (16 * 1024*1024). > > [a += b] timeToRun. > > > > you probably get a number around 100 or 200. This > means that Squeak > > can add two 32-bit float arrays with 16M entries > in 100 milliseconds > > or such. This is basicaly comparable > Java-performance. > Ouch! I just did this (twice, just to make sure) in > the 7058 imagine and > squeak bombed with the output below. > This was with the latest Linux 3.9 VM. I tried with > the 3.7-7 VM and it > bombed too. > kernel: 2.6.16-1.2080.16.rrt.rhfc5.ccrma (realtime > kernel from Stanford > - for audio) > > what's the problem? > > (Note Andreas said to Avi in a Sep12 msg regarding > similar error: > "I think you're seeing the old problem of signed vs. > unsigned ints when > accessing memory locations (the negative numbers > seem to indicate that > much). Try a later VM (3.9-7 is the latest according > to SqueakVM.org) - > IIRC, then this problem got fixed in later versions. > ) > > Just to show I'm using the 3.9 version: > > [bfuller@ives images]$ which squeak > /usr/local/bin/squeak > > [bfuller@ives images]$ ls -lsa /usr/local/bin/squeak > 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 bfuller sonaural 26 Sep 14 16:56 > /usr/local/bin/squeak -> > ../lib/squeak/3.9-7/squeak > > [bfuller@ives images]$ ls > /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-7 > AioPlugin Squeak3D > vm-display-X11 > B3DAcceleratorPlugin UnixOSProcessPlugin > vm-sound-null > npsqueak.so UUIDPlugin > vm-sound-OSS > PseudoTTYPlugin vm-display-fbdev > XDisplayControlPlugin > squeak vm-display-null > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > sweep failed to find exact end of memory > > -2128024296 Point>+ > -2128024388 Rectangle>center > -2128026592 Morph>layoutInBounds: > -2128027312 Morph>layoutProportionallyIn: > -2128046872 [] in ProportionalLayout>layout:in: > -2128046964 SequenceableCollection>do: > -2128047056 Morph>submorphsDo: > -2128047148 ProportionalLayout>layout:in: > -2128054100 Morph>doLayoutIn: > -2128055204 [] in Morph>fullBounds > -2128055020 BlockContext>on:do: > -2128055388 Morph>fullBounds > -2128055296 [] in Morph>submorphBounds > -2128055480 SequenceableCollection>do: > -2128055572 Morph>submorphBounds > -2128057332 Morph>privateFullBounds > -2128065988 Morph>doLayoutIn: > -2128067000 [] in Morph>fullBounds > -2128066816 BlockContext>on:do: > -2128067092 Morph>fullBounds > -2128067184 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchDefault:with: > -2128067276 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > -2128067384 Morph>processEvent:using: > -2128067812 PasteUpMorph>processEvent:using: > -2128067960 Morph>processEvent: > -2128068052 HandMorph>sendEvent:focus:clear: > -2128068296 HandMorph>sendMouseEvent: > -2128068388 HandMorph>handleEvent: > -2128068768 MouseOverHandler>processMouseOver: > 2032428416 HandMorph>handleEvent: > 2032428116 HandMorph>processEvents > 2032428208 [] in WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: > 2032428024 SequenceableCollection>do: > 2032427932 WorldState>handsDo: > 2032427840 WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: > 2032427748 WorldState>doOneCycleFor: > 2032427656 WorldState>doOneSubCycleFor: > 2032427564 PasteUpMorph>doOneSubCycle > 2032409876 MenuMorph>invokeModalAt:in:allowKeyboard: > 2032409784 MenuMorph>invokeModal: > 2032409416 MenuMorph>invokeModal > 2032402804 PluggableTextMorph>yellowButtonActivity: > 2032402712 TextMorphForEditView>mouseDown: > 2032402620 Morph>handleMouseDown: > 2032402528 MouseButtonEvent>sentTo: > 2032402436 Morph>handleEvent: > 2032402332 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchMouseDown:with: > 2032402200 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 2032402108 Morph>processEvent:using: > 2032401976 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchMouseDown:with: > 2032401844 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 2032401752 Morph>processEvent:using: > 2032401660 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchMouseDown:with: > 2032401568 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 2032401476 Morph>processEvent:using: > 2032401344 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchMouseDown:with: > 2032401252 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 2032401160 Morph>processEvent:using: > 2032401068 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchMouseDown:with: > 2032400976 > MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 2032400868 Morph>processEvent:using: > 2032400776 PasteUpMorph>processEvent:using: > 2032400592 Morph>processEvent: > 2032400500 HandMorph>sendEvent:focus:clear: > 2032400408 HandMorph>sendMouseEvent: > 2032400264 HandMorph>handleEvent: > 2032400044 HandMorph>processEvents > 2032400136 [] in WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: > 2032399952 SequenceableCollection>do: > 2032399860 WorldState>handsDo: > 2032399768 WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: > 2032399676 WorldState>doOneCycleFor: > 2032399584 PasteUpMorph>doOneCycle > 2025718576 [] in >spawnNewProcess > 2025718760 [] in BlockContext>newProcess > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:02:45 -0400 > From: Milan Zimmermann > <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <200609211602.46204.milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 2006 September 21 15:07, David Shaffer wrote: > > > > There is no XYPlotter in my 3.9g-7055 image. > > > Milan Zimmermann wrote: > <<snip>> > > I do not know how to run any "oficial" graphical > tests, but with > > MathMorphRevival installed ( plug :):) ) > > You would have to install the above package from > Squeakmap to run the > "graphics test" I mentioned, but please note it's > alpha, so install to a 3.9 > image without important stuff. > > I am not sure this is a good "graphical test", it > does create graphs, so it > should have some value, it is non-interactive > graphics though. Apart from > that, 3.9 feels as good as 3.7 here, but as you said > .. it's my feelin' only > > Milan > > > I tried loading Plot Morph > > and Plot Morph 2 from SqueakMap. Neither worked > so I'm guessing that's > > not the source of this class for 3.9. I'd be > happy to run this > > benchmark on the off chance it will lead to some > information about why > > things are sluggish. I'm guessing, though, that > it is a dead-end. > > "feels slow" is often hard to track down in > benchmarks. Probably > > something that does window manipulation would > reveal the problem... > > > > David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:06:40 -0700 > From: Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Cc: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512FEE0.6060002(a)sonaural.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Brad Fuller wrote: > > Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: > > > >> Antonio, > >> > >> If you evaluate the following (and print-it): > >> > >> | a b | > >> a := FloatArray new: (16 * 1024*1024). > >> b := FloatArray new: (16 * 1024*1024). > >> [a += b] timeToRun. > >> > >> you probably get a number around 100 or 200. This > means that Squeak > >> can add two 32-bit float arrays with 16M entries > in 100 milliseconds > >> or such. This is basicaly comparable > Java-performance. > >> > > Ouch! I just did this (twice, just to make sure) > in the 7058 imagine and > > squeak bombed with the output below. > > This was with the latest Linux 3.9 VM. I tried > with the 3.7-7 VM and it > > bombed too. > > kernel: 2.6.16-1.2080.16.rrt.rhfc5.ccrma (realtime > kernel from Stanford > > - for audio) > > > just a note to say that I tried it on kernel: > 2.6.17-1.2174_FC5 > with no difference.... same problem. > Anyone have an idea for this? > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 18:33:51 -0400 > From: David Shaffer <cdshaffer(a)acm.org> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4513134F.3040906(a)acm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Milan Zimmermann wrote: > > On 2006 September 21 15:07, David Shaffer wrote: > > > >> There is no XYPlotter in my 3.9g-7055 image. > >> > > > > > >> Milan Zimmermann wrote: > >> > > <<snip>> > > > >> I do not know how to run any "oficial" graphical > tests, but with > >> MathMorphRevival installed ( plug :):) ) > >> > Gasp, sorry, didn't see that. I've loaded it now. > Here are the > benchmark results: > > [ > 1 to: 10 do: [ :i | > XYPlotter example1 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example2 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example3 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example4 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example5 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example6 plot asMorph openInWorld. > ] > ] timeToRun. > > 15000 > > At this point the UI is so slow that moving a window > or morph results in > a noticable lag (nearly a second between releasing > the mouse button > after a drag until the object that was dragged is > drawn in its new > location). > > > > > You would have to install the above package from > Squeakmap to run the > > "graphics test" I mentioned, but please note it's > alpha, so install to a 3.9 > > image without important stuff. > > > > I am not sure this is a good "graphical test", it > does create graphs, so it > > should have some value, it is non-interactive > graphics though. Apart from > > that, 3.9 feels as good as 3.7 here, but as you > said .. it's my feelin' only > > > > Agreed...it is subjective. > > David > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:43:31 -0700 > From: "Ramon Leon" <ramon.leon(a)allresnet.com> > Subject: RE: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "'A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak.'" > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: > <01d201c6ddcf$5d2396a0$9700a8c0(a)hq.allresnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Gasp, sorry, didn't see that. I've loaded it now. > Here are > > the benchmark results: > > > > [ > > 1 to: 10 do: [ :i | > > XYPlotter example1 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example2 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example3 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example4 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example5 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example6 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > ] > > ] timeToRun. > > > > 15000 > > Slightly off topic, but this is a noob list, maybe > some will find this > interesting. If you aren't using the index in > #to:do:, why not simply... > > 10 timesRepeat: [ > XYPlotter example1 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example2 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example3 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example4 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example5 plot asMorph openInWorld. > XYPlotter example6 plot asMorph openInWorld. > ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:42:52 -0400 > From: Milan Zimmermann > <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <200609212042.52719.milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 2006 September 21 18:43, Ramon Leon wrote: > > > > Slightly off topic, but this is a noob list, maybe > some will find this > > interesting. If you aren't using the index in > #to:do:, why not simply... > > Ramon - yes, hehe i do qualify for a newbie, my > repertoir is limited :) - > thanks for the suggestion > > > > > 10 timesRepeat: [ > > XYPlotter example1 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example2 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example3 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example4 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example5 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > XYPlotter example6 plot asMorph openInWorld. > > ] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:07:27 -0400 > From: Milan Zimmermann > <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <200609212107.28181.milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 2006 September 21 18:33, David Shaffer wrote: > > ] timeToRun. > > > > 15000 > > > > At this point the UI is so slow that moving a > window or morph results in > > a noticable lag (nearly a second between releasing > the mouse button > > after a drag until the object that was dragged is > drawn in its new > > location). > > > > David, > > Thanks for running it - your observation is > interesting, here it does not seem > noticeably slower after I have run the benchmark ... > > > I am starting to think (if I read your configuration > correctly) - you do have > a different image (I have newer than 7055) and > slightly different VM - at > least compiled using different GCC version... The > older GCC the faster :) - > If you have time to experiment, you may want to try > Ian's VM that I use? > > Davids setup: > ======================== > shaffer@localhost ~/Squeak/Squeak3.9g-7055 $ squeak > -version > 3.9-7 #1 Mon Sep 4 17:01:02 EDT 2006 gcc 3.4.6 > Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021] > Linux localhost 2.6.17-gentoo-r4 #1 PREEMPT Thu Aug > 24 18:31:06 EDT 2006 > i686 Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 2.00GHz > GNU/Linux > default plugin location: > /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-7/*.so > ======================== > > Milans setup: > ======================== > Squeak3.9g-7058.image > mzimmermann@home-server:~> squeak -version > 3.9-7 #5 Mon Apr 24 20:07:28 PDT 2006 gcc 3.3.5 > Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021] > Linux vps.piumarta.com > 2.4.20-021stab028.18.777-enterprise #1 SMP Wed Sep > 14 > 19:34:46 MSD 2005 i686 GNU/Linux > default plugin location: > /usr/local/lib/squeak/3.9-7/*.so > ======================== > > Milan > > > > > You would have to install the above package from > Squeakmap to run the > > > "graphics test" I mentioned, but please note > it's alpha, so install to a > > > 3.9 image without important stuff. > > > > > > I am not sure this is a good "graphical test", > it does create graphs, so > > > it should have some value, it is non-interactive > graphics though. Apart > > > from that, 3.9 feels as good as 3.7 here, but as > you said .. it's my > > > feelin' only > > > > Agreed...it is subjective. > > > > David > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:48:36 -0400 > From: cummij(a)rpi.edu > Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org, > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <30d202d427810c4acd157eac2c16b2e1(a)mail.rpi.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > hi- > > Brad Fuller also wrote: > > Brad Fuller wrote: > >> Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: > >> > >>> Antonio, > >>> > >>> If you evaluate the following (and print-it): > >>> > >>> | a b | > >>> a := FloatArray new: (16 * 1024*1024). > >>> b := FloatArray new: (16 * 1024*1024). > >>> [a += b] timeToRun. > >>> > >>> you probably get a number around 100 or 200. > This means that Squeak > >>> can add two 32-bit float arrays with 16M entries > in 100 milliseconds > >>> or such. This is basicaly comparable > Java-performance. > >>> > >> Ouch! I just did this (twice, just to make sure) > in the 7058 imagine and > >> squeak bombed with the output below. > >> This was with the latest Linux 3.9 VM. I tried > with the 3.7-7 VM and it > >> bombed too. > >> kernel: 2.6.16-1.2080.16.rrt.rhfc5.ccrma > (realtime kernel from Stanford > >> - for audio) > >> > > just a note to say that I tried it on kernel: > > 2.6.17-1.2174_FC5 > > with no difference.... same problem. > > Anyone have an idea for this? > > > > no ideas, but same thing happens here, with debian > unstable: > > % grep squeak /etc/apt/sources.list > deb http://ftp.squeak.org/debian/ unstable main > contrib non-free > % cat /proc/version > Linux version 2.6.15.2 (jpc@krazykat) (gcc version > 4.0.3 20060128 (prerelease) (Debian 4.0.2-8)) #1 > PREEMPT Fri Feb 3 16:48:19 EST 2006 > % squeak -version > 3.9-7 #1 Sat Aug 5 23:08:06 CEST 2006 gcc 3.3.5 > Squeak3.9alpha of 4 July 2005 [latest update: #7021] > Linux shire 2.6.8-3-686 #1 Sat Jul 15 10:32:25 UTC > 2006 i686 GNU/Linux > default plugin location: /usr/lib/squeak/3.9-7/*.so > % ls -l /usr/share/squeak/squeak3.9.image.gz > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7616104 Sep 11 02:47 > /usr/share/squeak/squeak3.9.image.gz > > john > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Beginners mailing list > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > End of Beginners Digest, Vol 5, Issue 30 > **************************************** > ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

2 1

Why Squeak is so sloooow?
by Antonio San. 22 Sep '06

22 Sep '06

I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in linux squeak is very slow. I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels over the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated way and a big latency. It is specially bad for videogames developed in squeak because the movement of a picture imply a speed down of other pictures in the game. I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I have tested in five diferents machines, included a powerful P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same results. Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for execute squeak? Occur the same in windows? ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

7 9

Why Squeak is so sloooow?
by Antonio San. 22 Sep '06

22 Sep '06

Well. I have tested in other PCs with 3.8. With this centrino 1.8Ghz, this evening I have tested with 3.8, 3.9 and 3.7. (not croquet) I'm not speaking about calculate power of squeak (that I know is very good), is only a graphical question, in sum up, to move pixels from here and there... Results: In three versions I find slowdown when I load some blobs and one bouncingAthoms. Actually, bouncingAthoms is what I take as a reference, because you can see easily if "athoms" goes faster or slower. BUT there are some diferences between versions. 3.7 run very fast, but the work of the CPU increase quickly even shaking the mouse from left to right. In 3.8 I find slowdown specially when move windows. 3.9.7 in my case is the best election. Mouse shakeing waste ZERO cpu, and shaking windows too. But, if move other graphics objets the cpu increase quickly, for example, a Tetris window. I have notice that if you load the Tetris game and keep press the down key for changing a position of a tetris piece constantly, wastes the half of my CPU. In some games, over all, in arcade games, you need sprites changing contantly, I supouse that it would be a real load for squeak. --- beginners-request(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org escribió: > Send Beginners mailing list submissions to > beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > beginners-request(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > beginners-owner(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Beginners digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Antonio San.) > 2. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Offray Vladimir > Luna C?rdenas) > 3. webdav monitcello repo problems. (Bakki Kudva) > 4. RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Antonio San.) > 5. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Offray > Vladimir Luna C?rdenas) > 6. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad > Fuller) > 7. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (David > Shaffer) > 8. Re: RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Brad > Fuller) > 9. Re: Why Squeak is so sloooow? (Milan > Zimmermann) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:18:48 +0200 (CEST) > From: "Antonio San." <supercorreode(a)yahoo.es> > Subject: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <20060921141848.14937.qmail(a)web86912.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in > linux squeak is very slow. > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels > over > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated way > and a big latency. > It is specially bad for videogames developed in > squeak > because the movement of a picture imply a speed down > of other pictures in the game. > > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I > have > tested in five diferents machines, included a > powerful > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same > results. > > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for execute > squeak? Occur the same in windows? > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por > minuto. > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:27:18 -0500 > From: Offray Vladimir Luna C?rdenas > <offray.luna(a)javeriana.edu.co> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic > questionsabout > Squeak."<beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512A146.3090809(a)javeriana.edu.co> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > > Hi Antonio, > > Do you have any of these games to test? I have been > using Squeak on > Linux without any slowness problem. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > Antonio San. escribió: > > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in > > linux squeak is very slow. > > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels > over > > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated > way > > and a big latency. > > It is specially bad for videogames developed in > squeak > > because the movement of a picture imply a speed > down > > of other pictures in the game. > > > > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I > have > > tested in five diferents machines, included a > powerful > > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same > results. > > > > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for > execute > > squeak? Occur the same in windows? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por > minuto. > > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > > > > > ___________________________________ > > AVISO LEGAL: El presente correo electronico no > representa la opinion o el consentimiento oficial de > la PONTIFICIA UNIVERSIDAD JAVERIANA. Este mensaje es > confidencial y puede contener informacion > privilegiada la cual no puede ser usada ni divulgada > a personas distintas de su destinatario. Esta > prohibida la retencion, grabacion, utilizacion, > aprovechamiento o divulgacion con cualquier > proposito. Si por error recibe este mensaje, por > favor destruya su contenido y avise a su remitente. > En este aviso legal se omiten intencionalmente las > tildes. > > Este mensaje ha sido revisado por un sistema > antivirus, por lo que su contenido esta libre de > virus. > This e-mail has been scanned by an antivirus system, > so its contents is free of viruses. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:32:29 -0400 > From: "Bakki Kudva" <bakki.kudva(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [Newbies] webdav monitcello repo problems. > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: > > <f7f43c920609210732x3d07153el3e88f6ae341ee9f5(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > I have a webdav dir on apache2 on Debian Sarge. I > can access it from > another machine using cadaver and browse the dir. > However if I try to > use Monticello on it I get error: could not access > http://.... > > I am using an IP address since I don't have fqdn for > it..yet. > > I added the repository to monticello using > http://ip-address/path with > user name and pwd. I am using basic authentication > on the server and > have enabled put. I could not find anything on > google and wiresong > which helped. Is there something I am overlooking? > > tia, > > bakki > > PS: posted to dev list previously > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:22:27 +0200 (CEST) > From: "Antonio San." <supercorreode(a)yahoo.es> > Subject: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <20060921152227.10121.qmail(a)web86910.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a > good environment for game-develop learning ... and I > think that squeak could be a very very useful > project > for spending efforts and time. > > But I have done the test with the "games" inside > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob. > > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM) > > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use > continues when you enter in an other project giving > in > background blobs working. But I don't know how to do > that, because when I enter in an other project blobs > stop. > > > PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the same > topic in the list and not in other thread? > > > > >Hi Antonio, > > >Do you have any of these games to test? I have been > >using Squeak on > >Linux without any slowness problem. > > >Cheers, > > >Offray > > > > ______________________________________________ > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por > minuto. > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:45:10 -0500 > From: Offray Vladimir Luna C?rdenas > <offray.luna(a)javeriana.edu.co> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic > questionsabout > Squeak."<beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512B386.6090307(a)javeriana.edu.co> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > > Hi Antonio, > > The German company Impara has developed a lot of > games in Squeak[1]. I > don't know if any of the Impara people is here, but > if this is the case > may be they can make a point about Squeak as a game > development platform > > [1] http://www.impara.de/references.html > > I think that Squeak is nice for games development > and some friends and > me will try to learn and use it for a Free Software > CreativeCommons Game > (but this is a slow process, don't hold your > breath). May be you can try > Python and Panda3D also. But from a cognitive point > of view, I can't see > any more friendlier that Squeak. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > Pdt: I don't know what's wrong with the threads of > your mails, other > seems tho behave properly... :-/ > > Antonio San. escribió: > > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a > > good environment for game-develop learning ... and > I > > think that squeak could be a very very useful > project > > for spending efforts and time. > > > > But I have done the test with the "games" inside > > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob. > > > > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for > > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the > > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM) > > > > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use > > continues when you enter in an other project > giving in > > background blobs working. But I don't know how to > do > > that, because when I enter in an other project > blobs > > stop. > > > > > > PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the > same > > topic in the list and not in other thread? > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Antonio, > >> > > > > > >> Do you have any of these games to test? I have > been > >> using Squeak on > >> Linux without any slowness problem. > >> > > > > > >> Cheers, > >> > > > > > >> Offray > >> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por > minuto. > > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > > > > > ___________________________________ > > AVISO LEGAL: El presente correo electronico no > representa la opinion o el consentimiento oficial de > la PONTIFICIA UNIVERSIDAD JAVERIANA. Este mensaje es > confidencial y puede contener informacion > privilegiada la cual no puede ser usada ni divulgada > a personas distintas de su destinatario. Esta > prohibida la retencion, grabacion, utilizacion, > aprovechamiento o divulgacion con cualquier > proposito. Si por error recibe este mensaje, por > favor destruya su contenido y avise a su remitente. > En este aviso legal se omiten intencionalmente las > tildes. > > Este mensaje ha sido revisado por un sistema > antivirus, por lo que su contenido esta libre de > virus. > This e-mail has been scanned by an antivirus system, > so its contents is free of viruses. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:47:37 -0700 > From: Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512B419.8020809(a)sonaural.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Antonio San. wrote: > > I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a > > good environment for game-develop learning ... and > I > > think that squeak could be a very very useful > project > > for spending efforts and time. > > > > But I have done the test with the "games" inside > > squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob. > > > > Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for > > getting an important slowdown in all objets in the > > screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM) > > > > It would be interesting check if the high CPU use > > continues when you enter in an other project > giving in > > background blobs working. But I don't know how to > do > > that, because when I enter in an other project > blobs > > stop. > > > > > Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests on > your specific needs. > What type of game are you going to create? > > -- > brad fuller > sonaural: www.sonaural.com > personal: www.bradfuller.com > www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:55:40 -0400 > From: David Shaffer <cdshaffer(a)acm.org> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512B5FC.1010700(a)acm.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Brad Fuller wrote: > > Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests > on your specific needs. > > What type of game are you going to create? > > > > > You're certainly right Brad but let me add that the > Squeak 3.9 image is > unbearably slow on my linux-based laptop (2Ghz > Pentium 4M, 1Gb RAM). > I've even tried VM's from 3.8 to Ian's recent 3.9 > release. It is too > slow for simple window operations and causes a > gastly amount of CPU > utilization even under lite GUI use. Antonio might > be reflecting on > this same perception of slowness and frankly I'm > sure that any amount of > "proper scientific testing" is going to reveal that > it feels like > walking though mud ;-) > > Anyway I'm still using a 3.7 image for development. > Nice and snappy. > > David > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:07:52 -0700 > From: Brad Fuller <brad(a)sonaural.com> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the > most basic questions > about Squeak." > <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Message-ID: <4512B8D8.4020401(a)sonaural.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > David Shaffer wrote: > > Brad Fuller wrote: > > > >> Maybe you should do some proper scientific tests > on your specific needs. > >> What type of game are you going to create? > >> > >> > >> > > You're certainly right Brad but let me add that > the Squeak 3.9 image is > > unbearably slow on my linux-based laptop (2Ghz > Pentium 4M, 1Gb RAM). > > I've even tried VM's from 3.8 to Ian's recent 3.9 > release. It is too > > slow for simple window operations and causes a > gastly amount of CPU > > utilization even under lite GUI use. Antonio > might be reflecting on > > this same perception of slowness and frankly I'm > sure that any amount of > > "proper scientific testing" is going to reveal > that it feels like > > walking though mud ;-) > > > > Anyway I'm still using a 3.7 image for > development. Nice and snappy. > > > Ok, so I haven't used 3.9 really. What's the > problem? What changed from > 3.7 to 3.9. 3.8 used the 3.7 VM so that's probably > not it. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:23:46 -0400 > From: Milan Zimmermann > <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] Why Squeak is so sloooow? > To: beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Message-ID: > <200609211223.47134.milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Antonio, > > Which VM version are you using - could you try to > run, in command line: > > squeak -version > > And report results, thanks. Older versions of VM > caused high CPU use, but I > never had a "cpu overheat in a desmesurated way" :) > - new version 3.9 is > fine. > > Many people on squeak-dev including me use Squeak on > Linux, it certainly is > reasonably fast for me (e.g. faster than Ruby, > although I think you are > talking mostly about graphical stuff?) > > Also, in case you are using OpenCroquet > http://opencroquet.org make sure you > have OpenGL driver installed correctly. If you use > straight squeak, is it > slow for you even with a fresh image? > http://squeak.org/Download > > > > On 2006 September 21 10:18, Antonio San. wrote: > > I don't know if occurs the same in windows, but in > > linux squeak is very slow. > > I mean that all the thinks related to move pixels > over > > the screen causes cpu overheat in a desmesurated > way > > and a big latency. > > It is specially bad for videogames developed in > squeak > > because the movement of a picture imply a speed > down > > of other pictures in the game. > > > > I thought that it was caused by my old PC. But I > have > > tested in five diferents machines, included a > powerful > > P4 with 2.8Ghz and 512 Mb RAM, with the same > results. > > > > Is X system (xfree86 and xorg) a bad way for > execute > > squeak? Occur the same in windows? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. > > Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por > minuto. > > http://es.voice.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Beginners mailing list > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > End of Beginners Digest, Vol 5, Issue 28 > **************************************** > ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

2 1

RE: Why Squeak is so sloooow?
by Antonio San. 22 Sep '06

22 Sep '06

I haven't any game, indeed I'm going to look for a good environment for game-develop learning ... and I think that squeak could be a very very useful project for spending efforts and time. But I have done the test with the "games" inside squeak: BouncingAtoms and Blob. Only 1 BouncingAtoms and 3 Blobs are enough for getting an important slowdown in all objets in the screen (Centrino 1.8 Ghz with 512Mb RAM) It would be interesting check if the high CPU use continues when you enter in an other project giving in background blobs working. But I don't know how to do that, because when I enter in an other project blobs stop. PD. How can I do for getting my reply under the same topic in the list and not in other thread? >Hi Antonio, >Do you have any of these games to test? I have been >using Squeak on >Linux without any slowness problem. >Cheers, >Offray ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

7 18

webdav monitcello repo problems.
by Bakki Kudva 21 Sep '06

21 Sep '06

I have a webdav dir on apache2 on Debian Sarge. I can access it from another machine using cadaver and browse the dir. However if I try to use Monticello on it I get error: could not access http://.... I am using an IP address since I don't have fqdn for it..yet. I added the repository to monticello using http://ip-address/path with user name and pwd. I am using basic authentication on the server and have enabled put. I could not find anything on google and wiresong which helped. Is there something I am overlooking? tia, bakki PS: posted to dev list previously

1 0

Image manipulation
by G M 21 Sep '06

21 Sep '06

Hi, I'm a beginner who's trying to use Squeak to do some image manipulation at the back end. It's part of a Webapp for medical images (the Web part might be handled by Seaside). I really like Seaside, but I have not decided because I'm concerned about image manipulation in Squeak. So here's the issue: 1. I have not found a squeak package that does something similar to ImageMagick. If there's no such facility in Squeak, how can I "call" an external library such as ImageMagick from the Squeak image? 2. If there is something equivalent, I'm still concerned about the performance (the Webapp will be heavily used). Could anyone give me some advice on this matter? Thanks a lot for your help. G.M.

4 3

Tsunami error in squeak
by itsme213 20 Sep '06

20 Sep '06

I'm trying to load into Squeak 3.8 the latest Tsnuami from Monticello (after successfully loading PackageInfo-Base-avi.20). I get: Error: key not found (apparently from SystemDictionary not containing #MCPostscriptDefinition) Any idea what I may be doing wrong? Thanks!

2 3

Font encoding
by Jan Szumiec 20 Sep '06

20 Sep '06

Hello, How would I set the proper encoding for fonts under Squeak? My keyboard layout under Windows is set to 'PL', and pressing LeftAlt-a should yield the letter 'ą'. Instead, I am getting some garbage. Thanks, jps

2 1

Squeak 3.9 RPM packages for Fedora Core Linux updated
by Giovanni Corriga 19 Sep '06

19 Sep '06

Hi all, I've updated my RPM packages for Squeak 3.9, bringing them in line with the latest 3.9g release (update 7058) You may find the packages here: http://smalltalkit.seasidehosting.st/seaside/pier/RPMPackages I'd appreciate some feedback, so if anyone tries them please let me know what you think. Ciao, Giovanni

1 0

[ANN] UI for managing Pier users
by David Pollak 18 Sep '06

18 Sep '06

Howdy, I have released the first version of a Web-based UI for creating, editing, and removing user from Pier (based on Lukas Renggli's Pier- Security package.) The project is available at: http://www.squeaksource.com/PierSecurityManager.html This is my first Smalltalk program and I'd welcome feedback on the code. Specifically, I'm coming to Smalltalk via Ruby, Java, C++, and Objective-C. I am very sure I haven't found my "Smalltalk voice" and help in improving my Smalltalk idioms would be greatly appreciated. Also, I am looking for a way to write tests for the code. Because much of the code is based on Seaside/Magritte callbacks, it seems difficult to test the code without being able to simulate these calls. Any pointers to testing would be appreciated. Thanks, David

1 0

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

Beginners September 2006