seaside July 2006

seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org

66 participants
86 discussions

small seaside image
by Avi Bryant 25 May '07

25 May '07

A while ago I mentioned on this list a stripped 3.7-based Seaside image that was around 7.5MB. A couple of people have emailed me offlist asking for it, and I've finally gotten around to actually putting one up somewhere. You can grab it from: http://smallthought.com/avi/Seaside2.6.zip This includes Scriptaculous and is up to, I think, around 7.8MB now. Let me know if there are any problems getting or using it. Avi

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Swazoo versions
by Esteban A. Maringolo 02 Nov '06

02 Nov '06

Hi, Today I was playing with the published version of Seaside made by Avi Bryant the last week, which uses the Swazoo version for Dolphin made by Sean Malloy, to add some missing functionalities I had working in my earlier port of Seaside to Dolphin. Considering to what Sean says in his website, the port is based on the 0.9.101 version, while Steve Waring's one is based on 0.9.99 (apparently). Sean's version is more conscise in terms of number of packages, but it misses some classes such as SwazooSiteScript and other very useful tools, available in Steve's version. Considering that the Swazoo topic got warm this days, and that today it's more a jungle than a zoo ;-), we could arrange some efforts to make it converge into a single stream of development, at least compatible with what already exists in Dolphin. For example, you can't have Seaside and Spray web services running on the same image, because they're incompatible (besides the fact that the naming convention of Steve is different to the Sean's one*). Plus, Dolphin ships with Steve's version, which is appropriate considering the existing goodies and packages available, but not the best option aiming to a broader audience through Seaside and other popular developments that would come. I leave the topic here, to see if there is enough interest to make it happen. I would like to see Sean, Steve, Janko, the OA people, perhaps Bruce Badger too, and anybody willing to collaborate at least in testing, joining efforts for this. Best regards, -- Esteban. * Steve: I will be happy to know what SW, SV, and other prefixes mean. :-) ps: this is a cross-post to c.l.s.d, Swazoo and Seaside mailing lists, sorry for any inconvenience caused.

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OSCON report
by Avi Bryant 09 Aug '06

09 Aug '06

Since this StOR thread seems to be about reaching an audience we haven't had before, it's probably worth mentioning what I've been up to for the last week. I've just returned from the O'Reilly's open source OSCON conference. I gave a talk on Seaside very intentionally angled not towards convincing people to jump ship from Python/Perl/Rails etc, but rather towards getting them to consider some of the basic technologies - like the the Canvas, Component, Callback and Continuation model (hm, never noticed all those C's before) - for use in their environment of choice. However, interest was high enough that: - I gave a 45 minute talk to a packed room (some good photos at http://flickr.com/photos/jacobian/) - followed by about 30 minutes of Q&A with most people still in the room - followed by 3 hours of conversation with a large group at dinner about Seaside and Smalltalk - followed by a subset of that group tracking me down first thing the next morning and making me spend another couple of hours doing a Squeak demo What I found is that a) a huge number of these people have tried Squeak before, and that b) they were all very excited by what they saw in my (very simple) demo, but none of them had been able to make the journey themselves from the one to the other - that is, it was impossible for them to just download a Squeak image and, with no prior Smalltalk experience, find their way through a Hello World Seaside app. So they decided Squeak wasn't for them. There's also a huge amount of confusion and disinformation about the state of things like version control: essentially everyone seems to believe that the image is the only way to distribute Smalltalk code, and is understandably leery of this. I sensed enough goodwill, and got enough concrete offers to publish articles/books/etc, to think that the opportunity is there to get a mainstream audience for Seaside *if* (and this is a fairly large if) we want it and have the resources to put into it. What it would take, I think, is a custom Squeak distribution and tutorial/ screencast that was aimed at a non-Smalltalk audience. It would need to cover: - The browser - The workspace - Saving, loading, and merging in Monticello - The basics of Seaside (a revamped "Walk on the Seaside" tutorial would be fine) An ActiveRecord-like simple O/R framework would certainly help too, but I think the above is a higher priority. Incidentally, I was asked by a few people at the conference how big the Seaside community was, and I was very pleased to be able to say "well, I almost never post to the list anymore, because other people are doing all the question answering, discussing, and committing". That's pretty cool, and an important threshold to cross, I think. Avi

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Appending to list of model objects & updating (sub)component list with scriptaculous / Ajax
by itsme213 06 Aug '06

06 Aug '06

I have an SUComponent subclass whose domain object contains a list of Things. The SUComponent contains a list of other subcomponents in an OrderedCollection instance variable #subViews, each subcomponent on 1 Thing. Each subcomponent renders an InPlaceEditor. I want to use Ajax to add Things to the domain list and update the subcomponent list. Below is the #renderContentOn: for the SUComponent. renderContentOn: html html div: [ html div id: 'ID1'; with: [ self renderSummaryOn: html. " simply renders -- We Have <N> Things" self subViews do: [ : sv | html render: sv ] " renders an InPlaceEditor on each Thing; works until '++' below". ]. html anchor onClick: ( html ajax id: 'ID1'; callback: [ :renderer | | newThing | newThing := self model addThing: 'a new one'. subViews add: (SubView new thing: newThing). self renderSummaryOn: renderer. self subViews do: [ :sv | renderer render: sv ] ] ); with: '++'. ]. Almost works, except that after pressing the '++': (a) the last added Thing does not have the snippet of Javascript code that the others do: Ajax.InPlaceEditor('id15','http://localhost:8080/seaside/dental',{callback:function(){return ['_s=xzNubmhAYkkRhziT','_k=Mbyouyhq','13','14='+escape(arguments[1])].join('&')},cancelText:'cancel'})} (b) the InPlaceEditors of the preceding Things no longer work. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance!

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Scaling Seaside apps (was: [Seaside] About SToR)
by Chris Muller 04 Aug '06

04 Aug '06

> > What made you decide to use a session pool rather than have a magma > > > session per Seaside session? Is any of the stuff you've built to > marry > > Currently we have a compromise - we use one magma session per Seaside > session, but it is allocated from a pool. This means we cut out the > session creation time, but more importantly - the session is "hot" so > we > keep the cached objects of the session. > > But the problem with using one Magma session per Seaside session > (which > thus remains for us) is that if you have a large persistent domain > model > AND you wish to cache quite a bit of it - then you get: > > numberOfObjectsInRAM = numberOfSeasideSessions * > objectsCachedPerSession > > So if you have 100 concurrent sessions and 10000 objects cached per > session you get a million objects. Ouch. This is just a physical memory ouch, right? An internal structure of only 10000 objects cached per session will keep each session from getting bogged down with a huge dictionary cache, not to mention more supportive of concurrent processing. I really think a caching 100-thousand objects in one shared session would hurt worse.. Let us clarify that this is a general web programming ouch or, more generically, a "three-tier" ouch rather than anything specific to using Magma. No matter what DB is used, you have to choose to share the model between sessions or each session works on its own copy of the model (or some hybrid of the two). Sharing the model requires the need for thread-safety throughout, not to mention throwing out commit-conflict detection (that one clients changes affect the db transactions of other clients) and consistent db views.. Scary! Has anyone tried the suggested approach to scaling with Magma; using multiple images, CPUs, servers? This permits the simple 1:1 application architecture, is ultimately more scalable and, probably more economical in the end, because cost of h/w < cost of complicated s/w architectures.. Programming to the simple, one session per web session, permits your app to scale by simply adding more hardware with absolutely _no changes_ to the code. In fact, the only thing you have to do is go into each Seaside configuration panel and point the "Magma DB location" to the remotely hosted database rather than a locally-hosted one. This has been demonstrated via the "Magma Seaside" demo available..). And you don't necessarily need additional hardware to at least *try* this approach, in fact, just multiple images on the same machine would prove its viability and leverage any multi-core abilities of that machine in the process. I hope you will at least try it out and report back how it went.. Regards, Chris

10 17

Scriptalicious
by Ramon Leon 03 Aug '06

03 Aug '06

Hi, anyone know a way to update multiple elements on a page with a single ajax callback?

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Seaside Meeting on the Leftshore
by Boris Popov 31 Jul '06

31 Jul '06

What: Informal Seaside/Squeak/VisualWorks/Smalltalk Meet Up When: Friday, August 18, 2006 @ 6:00PM PST Where: Stamp's Landing Neighborhood Pub - 610 Stamps Landing, Vancouver, BC - Google Map Who: Everyone with interests in Seaside, Squeak, VisualWorks and anything else to do with Smalltalk is welcomed to join us for a beer (coffee, milk, coke, juice, water) or two and informal chat about state of things in the Seaside world and whatever else people choose to catch up on. There is no agenda, simply because putting a bunch of passionate Smalltalkers in the same room seems to turn into a good thing on its own, so why ruin it? ;) So far we have myself from DeepCove as well as folks from Smallthought confirmed in attendance, please comment or email if you are planning on coming, or simply drop by the pub if you wish to stay anonymous. More people, the merrier, so pass this message on. http://leftshore.wordpress.com/2006/07/31/seaside-meeting-on-the-leftshore/ Cheers! -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 boris(a)deepcovelabs.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you.

1 0

Extending WAModelProxy to handle the proxying of methods with 2 or more arguments..
by Martin J. Laubach 31 Jul '06

31 Jul '06

| Anyone care to steer me in the right direction such that this method | can handle methods that look something like : | | MyClass>>UpdateMyArrayAt: myIndex with: myValue The short answer: It can't. The proxy is a really simple minded thing that just assumes: a selector with one argument is a setter and sets an instance variable, and there is a corresponding getter (same selector without arg). Thus it intercepts #foo: and #foo and simulates setting and getting. Quite obviously this won't work right for more elaborate getter/setter scenarios that do more, like "insert stuff in a Collection". In that case you'd probably need to make a deep copy and build a proxy that keeps a log of all actions so it can replay them against the original on commit. mjl

2 1

About SToR
by stephane ducasse 31 Jul '06

31 Jul '06

>> I was wondering if it would not make a lot of sense to have a >> small framework called STOR that mimic (especially the persistency >> part of RoR) in seaside and magritte. >> It seems to me that lot of people are doing simple application and >> that the persistance is really important there. >> What do you think about that?

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scriptaculous version?
by itsme213 31 Jul '06

31 Jul '06

My scriptaculous version appears to have things like (html ajax), but not (html updater). My Monticello Browser shows * Scriptaculous (Scriptaculous-lr.70) in the left pane. Am I out of date? If so how do I go about getting the current version? Newbie-level pointers most appreciated e.g. +Repository... then ... :-) Thanks.

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seaside July 2006