Hello,
I use Seaside for a lot of personal development and I love its rapidity of development! But for real deployment there is a big disadvantage. At my knowledge, I have only two solutions to deploy an application: have an own server (what I do for the moment) or put my image on seasidehosting.
So I have a simple idea: it will be really cool if I can develop in Smalltalk with Seaside and I deploy the code in Php/MySql to put it in any common server.
I think this idea is not so crazy. I know there is a world between Smalltalk and Php (I know both well) but a way to implement this idea is perhaps the next one. The first step: the classes (and methods) used in Smalltalk must be translated into Php (some papers show that it is possible into Java for example). The second step are about the alive objects. Because in Smalltalk the alive objects are kept in memory (in the image), a possible solution is to create each object in Php and save them in a MySql database to retrieve them through each page.
An important point is that Php is a dynamic typed language. The convertion will be so easier than Java.
So my question is the next one to the Seaside developers: what are the big obstacles to achieve this goal ?
Some questions in my mind: What about continuations ? What about object reflectivity ?
Fréd ---- Frédéric Pluquet Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Assistant http://www.ulb.ac.be/di/fpluquet
"Frederic" == Frederic Pluquet fpluquet@ulb.ac.be writes:
Frederic> An important point is that Php is a dynamic typed language. The Frederic> convertion will be so easier than Java.
Even so, it's very unlikely that you could build anything as complex as the WAContinuation class (which is fundamental to Seaside) without interpreting an entire *new* object framework using PHP as essentially a VM, losing all of its native object traits.
Frederic> So my question is the next one to the Seaside developers: what are Frederic> the big obstacles to achieve this goal ?
Do you have 5 to 10 man-years to throw at this?
I think it's far easier to just allocate an appopriate host. :)
Someone else made a run at this and called it phaux. It is written in PHP and inspired by Seaside. http://ev0l.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/phaux-is-phreaking-phat/
There hasn't been much activity, maybe you could pick it up. Of course, if you read his blog, you'll hear the familiar story of Smalltalk ruining him for other languages: http://ev0l.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/smalltalk-has-spoiled-me/
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Frederic Pluquet fpluquet@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Hello,
I use Seaside for a lot of personal development and I love its rapidity of development! But for real deployment there is a big disadvantage. At my knowledge, I have only two solutions to deploy an application: have an own server (what I do for the moment) or put my image on seasidehosting.
So I have a simple idea: it will be really cool if I can develop in Smalltalk with Seaside and I deploy the code in Php/MySql to put it in any common server.
I think this idea is not so crazy. I know there is a world between Smalltalk and Php (I know both well) but a way to implement this idea is perhaps the next one. The first step: the classes (and methods) used in Smalltalk must be translated into Php (some papers show that it is possible into Java for example). The second step are about the alive objects. Because in Smalltalk the alive objects are kept in memory (in the image), a possible solution is to create each object in Php and save them in a MySql database to retrieve them through each page.
An important point is that Php is a dynamic typed language. The convertion will be so easier than Java.
So my question is the next one to the Seaside developers: what are the big obstacles to achieve this goal ?
Some questions in my mind: What about continuations ? What about object reflectivity ?
Fréd
Frédéric Pluquet Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Assistant http://www.ulb.ac.be/di/fpluquet
seaside mailing list seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Frederic Pluquet fpluquet@ulb.ac.be wrote:
So my question is the next one to the Seaside developers: what are the big obstacles to achieve this goal ?
Some questions in my mind: What about continuations ? What about object reflectivity ?
Hi Frédéric,
You can always make do without continuations anyway - they're completely optional in Seaside 3.0.
But object-relational mapping is bad enough at the best of times. Trying to simulate Smalltalk's object space that way sounds like a nightmare. And then you need to simulate the behaviour of Smalltalk's built-in classes and primitives if you want the application to run the same. I'm not saying you mightn't be able to do this--it might just be a Simple Matter of Programming--but it's going to cost a lot more in development time than you'll ever spend on a virtual server (like slicehost as Monty mentions).
I worked on a Seaside-inspired (well, Iowa-inspired, really) framework in PHP for a client many years back. It was cool for a while to see how far you could push PHP but it really started to get frustrating and ugly after a while. Of course, I think that was before they cleaned up their object implementation so you'd probably be in a slightly better position than I was. Still, there have been various frameworks in Ruby, Java, and PHP that take inspiration from Seaside and I think you'd be better to just start with one of them - take the key concepts of Seaside but apply them in a way that makes sense to each language.
Julian
On 12/1/09 9:18 AM, Frederic Pluquet wrote:
Hello,
I use Seaside for a lot of personal development and I love its rapidity of development! But for real deployment there is a big disadvantage. At my knowledge, I have only two solutions to deploy an application: have an own server (what I do for the moment) or put my image on seasidehosting.
You appear to have solved your problem, but in the future, you might consider our hosting service: http://www.morphle.org/ which will offer unique seaside/squeak solutions via dedicated Siliconsqueak hardware...
Lawson English
helpdesk@squeakhosting.org (not affiliated with squeakhosting.st)
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Lawson English lenglish5@cox.net wrote:
On 12/1/09 9:18 AM, Frederic Pluquet wrote:
Hello,
I use Seaside for a lot of personal development and I love its rapidity of development! But for real deployment there is a big disadvantage. At my knowledge, I have only two solutions to deploy an application: have an own server (what I do for the moment) or put my image on seasidehosting.
You appear to have solved your problem, but in the future, you might consider our hosting service: http://www.morphle.org/ which will offer unique seaside/squeak solutions via dedicated Siliconsqueak hardware...
wow...that's awesome. But there is something I don't understand. Siliconsqueak says:
"SiliconSqueak is a processor chip that will run almost all existing Squeakhttp://www.squeak.org/images without modification. It is a hardware "virtual machine"."
now...wouldn't that crash or break code? If a squeak image is done using green threads and with this, I could have multiple native threads/CPUs...so?
thanks
Mariano
Lawson English
helpdesk@squeakhosting.org (not affiliated with squeakhosting.st)
seaside mailing list seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
May be you should fix the typos on http://www.morphle.org/team/
because it gives a bad impression
Stef
On Oct 3, 2010, at 8:51 PM, Lawson English wrote:
On 12/1/09 9:18 AM, Frederic Pluquet wrote:
Hello,
I use Seaside for a lot of personal development and I love its rapidity of development! But for real deployment there is a big disadvantage. At my knowledge, I have only two solutions to deploy an application: have an own server (what I do for the moment) or put my image on seasidehosting.
You appear to have solved your problem, but in the future, you might consider our hosting service: http://www.morphle.org/ which will offer unique seaside/squeak solutions via dedicated Siliconsqueak hardware...
Lawson English
helpdesk@squeakhosting.org (not affiliated with squeakhosting.st)
seaside mailing list seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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David Mitchell -
Frederic Pluquet -
Julian Fitzell -
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stephane ducasse