Thanks for the link, Sabine! This is worth a try. As my personal taste I'd prefer templating at DOM object level like WACanvas and jQuery do, but it is a pragmatic solution to my problem.

-- Siemen

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Sabine Manaa manaa.sabine@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Siemen,

do you know mustache?

http://norbert.hartl.name/blog/2013/10/03/mustache- templates-for-smalltalk/

Regards Sabine

2017-06-22 11:10 GMT+02:00 Siemen Baader [via Smalltalk] <[hidden email] http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4952234&i=0>:

...

Hi all,

I use an external program to design & update my HTML pages and would like to use them as templates in Seaside. In the front end, I used to extract elements by IDs and then added content to them using jQuery. That left the templates as valid HTML and felt very consistent to me.

Is there a similar approach to use within Seaside? Eg. getting a canvas cursor inside a specific element of the HTML file?

Other approaches welcome, I just want to keep my templates as valid HTML outside the image so I can use external dev tools on them.

-- Siemen

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On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Stephan Eggermont stephan@stack.nl wrote:

On 22/06/17 11:26, Siemen Baader wrote:

...

Other approaches welcome, I just want to keep my templates as valid HTML outside the image so I can use external dev tools on them.

I've given up on external tools dealing with files. Files are for export. In Seaside I can reduce the duplication to a level that small changes impact so many files that using external file-based tools is pointless.

Yes, that is one important drawback to be balanced against what I gain from the UIs of dedicated web design tools.

That also means that I don't use Seaside for everything.

Which alternatives do you use, in which situations?

-- Siemen

Stephan

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This is an interesting thread as I’d been mulling over something similar having recently experimented off-piste with NodeJS and a static site generation library called metalsmith.io http://metalsmith.io/.

I bought a bootstrap template ($20) a few years ago which comes as a series of files and styles that I “moustache”’d quite easily to use with metalsmith (previously I had used it with Jekyll - but found the Ruby eco-system too awkward).

Having been to Pharo-days this year, I was inspired to check out Ecstatic (I haven’t got my head around that yet - it looks similar to metalsmith.io http://metalsmith.io/ in concept) for the static site component of a website - however my thought is that merging this with Seaside, where you write components for more dynamic elements of your site seems like a compelling thing to do.

I think this is perhaps where this conversation could go, and the trick of course is marrying a template file concept (Ala moustache) up with code components for more dynamic parts of a site. E.g. so that you match up style names and id’s effectively (e.g. how do you safely refactor the whole thing). I think it could be possible, and quite compelling….

Alternatively - or maybe complimentary, did someone recently refer to a tool to read in html and generate Seaside code that represents the same thing? Maybe I am imagining that? Would it be useful to do that, or just use it to bootstrap the hybrid I mention above?

I’m certainly going to investigate this, in the next few months.

Tim

On 22 Jun 2017, at 11:16, Sabine Manaa manaa.sabine@gmail.com wrote:

My experience also is, that it becomes confusing when you have large html files.

I also "translate" the html into smalltalk/seaside/mdl code.

Disadvantages are clear - if I get a new html file, I have to find out the changes and translate them again.

But for me the advantages weigh more.

also when the page turns into an application and gets more dynamic, it often is not possible to deal with html files.

2017-06-22 11:48 GMT+02:00 Siemen Baader [via Smalltalk] <[hidden email] x-msg://128/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4952244&i=0>:

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email] http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4952242&i=0> wrote: On 22/06/17 11:26, Siemen Baader wrote: Other approaches welcome, I just want to keep my templates as valid HTML outside the image so I can use external dev tools on them.

I've given up on external tools dealing with files. Files are for export. In Seaside I can reduce the duplication to a level that small changes impact so many files that using external file-based tools is pointless.

Yes, that is one important drawback to be balanced against what I gain from the UIs of dedicated web design tools.

That also means that I don't use Seaside for everything.

Which alternatives do you use, in which situations?

-- Siemen

Stephan

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