seaside May 2009

seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org

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Forcing a page refresh from a callback
by Marco D'Ambros 19 May '09

19 May '09

Hi, is there a way to force a page refresh from a callcack? cheers Marco

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Swazoo v. Kom
by John Chludzinski 19 May '09

19 May '09

I'm using Seaside to develop a suite of web apps for mobile devices; I'm also a newbie to Seaside. Is there a reason to prefer Swazoo v. Kom. I will need to use both Comet and Jabber, so maybe this tips it in Kom's favor? ---John

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rails niceties equivalents?
by sergio_101 18 May '09

18 May '09

hi, guys... i am playing with my first seaside app, and i have a few quick questions.. for every new project, in order to allow clients to start entering data quickly, we build the database in rails, and then use activescaffold to quickly build a backend that allows them to start entering relevant data. this allows us to continue developing the front end, and presenting it with real data. we also use restful_authentication to quickly install a user and role security system.. are there any equivalents to those systems in the seaside world? thanks! ___________ sergio t. ruiz network analyst red red design 419.281.8483

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outdated documentation links
by Sean Allen 16 May '09

16 May '09

Seaside FAQ Maintained by Yar Hwee Boon. when followed, says its outdated and link back to seaside site at http://seaside.st/documentation/faq Seaside Configuration Management A tutorial on the Seaside configuration system from C. David Shaffer. is a broken link

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gemstone tutorial..
by sergio_101 16 May '09

16 May '09

i am currently working on the gemstone tutorial, and am having a problem figure out how to get the code into the repository.. i think that step may be missing from the tutorial: http://seaside.gemstone.com/tutorial/chapter14.pdf i made a repository.. gave it a name, and a place to live.. but i don't see how my classes get into that repository.. am i totally missing it? thanks! ___________ sergio t. ruiz network analyst red red design 419.281.8483

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Saving code in the repository
by Stephan Eggermont 16 May '09

16 May '09

>i am currently working on the gemstone tutorial, >and am having a problem figure out how to get the code into the repository.. > i think that step may be missing from the tutorial: No, the name of the package decides which code gets into it. http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1287 Stephan

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Options for persistence when using Seaside
by Stephan Eggermont 15 May '09

15 May '09

Ok, here is a first draft. Please send me (or to the list) - comments - other possible solutions - other scenario's - other questions that are relevant to make a good decision - sample code - information on reference implementations - links - answers to the questions in the doc. I'll summarize and try to create a similar document to the pdf one. Stephan at stack dot nl Options for persistence when using Seaside When building an application with Seaside, one often has a need to persist data. There are a lot of different technological solutions for this problem. This document should help you decide what is the right solution for you. Overview The number of different possible solutions is large: - do nothing, simply save the image - write binary files with objects - write SIXX, smalltalk interchange xml - use imagesegments - use a prevayler-like solution - SandstoneDB - sPrevayler - use an OODB - gemstone - goods - magma - use an ORM to a RDB - SqueakDBX - GLORP - store in the cloud Availability Seaside is available on a number of different platforms. Not all persistence solutions are available on all platforms. It is useful to make a breakdown into: - operating system/version (Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, etc.) - smalltalk platform (Squeak, Pharo, Gemstone, VW, VA, Dolphin, etc.) - versions supported Performance Each persistence solution has different performance characteristics. How many objects can be handled on what hardware, how many updates can be handled/second, how many simultaneous users can be supported. Special features Clustering/ automatic fail-over etc. Scenario's In different situations, there are different storage needs 1 You are writing a small demonstration program to show your customers, and want to populate the system with some representative data. - Add a class instance variable to store the instances, and simply save the image. 2 You have a small system with a few hundred/thousand objects, and are not dependent on external systems. - A prevayler-like system like SandstoneDB might be a perfect fit. Each object save means a disk access, so scaling ends with disk speed. A few old versions of the data are kept around, so backing up or reverting is easy. - If you want a readable representation, SIXX might help. 3 You have a legacy (relational) database, with extensive reporting written for it. - Use an ORM 4 You have a complex and large object model that has to support changing the object model while developing. - the solution is an OODB - Gemstone is the large and proven commercial offering. It has a free version for smaller databases (4GB data, 1 core, 1G ram), and has proven scalability to 500 machines. - Magma is an open source OODB Sample code Keep data in the image On the class side, add an instance variable: ADPerson class instanceVariableNames: 'persons' Add an accessor persons ^persons ifNil: [persons := IdentitySet new] Make it possible to empty the dataset reset persons := nil Create a new entity and add it to the dataset |person| person := ADPerson new. person lastName: 'Jansen'. ADPerson persons add: person Links Gemstone http://seaside.gemstone.com/ SandstoneDB http://onsmalltalk.com/ Goods: http://www.garret.ru/goods.html Goods backend for SandstoneDB: http://www.squeaksource.com/SDGoodsStore Magma mailing list: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/magma/

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rails niceties equivalent
by Stephan Eggermont 15 May '09

15 May '09

Sergio wrote: >the other app that has access is indesign... through a plugin.. Well, it basically means your database is outside your boundary of trust. That's a lot of work. I don't think rails is up to that, and neither are the smalltalk ORM solutions. I'd be interested to be proven wrong, but I fear the performance consequences of handling this correct are too large. Recovering from all the problems you might encounter takes a lot of application and test code. Nothing you read from or write to the database can be trusted, Everything should be verified, Your table structure might change while you're writing out data, you might not be able to open new connections, the other application will overwrite your data. Stephan

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rails niceties equivalents?
by Stephan Eggermont 15 May '09

15 May '09

Sergio wrote: >one of my current projects requires that other apps have direct access >to the mysql database.. a fact that i can't get around.. this was >going to be my first seaside app, but for those reasons, i started a >rails app.. When other applications have direct access to your database, you cannot contain bugs. A mistake in one application will bring down other applications. That is unacceptably bad design. Stephan

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rails niceties equivalents?
by Torsten Bergmann 15 May '09

15 May '09

Since this question comes up from time to time I would answer it like this: Seaside is not comparable to Rails. Seaside is a web framework - and does a very good job in web development compared to others out there. Rails on the other hand allows you to quickly start a simple web app right from the database. Depending on your requirements this allows you to provide a simple (CRUD) web application within minutes - but as the web pages grow or requirements change you may be limited with the possibilities of the framework (and maybe the language too). Decision there are already made. It's like using a wizard in an IDE, you can start easily - but there is a point in time where you need control and knowledge back in your hands ;) So the Smalltalk world is more comparable to the J2EE world here. YOU have to make decisions depending on your need and choose the things that make up your application. In Java you have to make decisions for the web tier (JSF, JSP, Facelets, plain Servlets, ...) and persistence (simple JDBC, OR-Mapping using JPA with Hibernate, TopLink, ...), build system (Ant vs. Maven) etc. Smalltalk is not different here. I assume you already made the decision in Smalltalk for Seaside as the web thing to use. You can start developing your model, connect it to a Seaside UI and first use simple "in image" persistence. This allows you to quickly provide a first prototype of an app. Later you may bind your app to Gemstone or Magma persistence (both OODBMS) or hooking up to a relational DB using Glorp as mapping framework. It also depends on the Smalltalk you use - Squeak provided several persistence solutions, commercial vendors also provide solutions. If you look for an easy (wizard style) way to develop simple DB app's in conjunction with Seaside the "WebVelocity" beta may help (google for it, its commercial) > i just want to make sure that those kinds of expectations don't get > broken. If your company is happy with quickly developed "websites bound to a database" just continue with Rails. If you need more sophisticated "web applications" use Seaside and choose from Smalltalk stack of technologies. bye Torsten -- Neu: GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate + Telefonanschluss für nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://dslspecial.gmx.de/freedsl-surfflat/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a

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seaside May 2009