squeakland November 2012

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11 participants
11 discussions

Etoys User Manual
by karl ramberg 26 Nov '12

26 Nov '12

Hi I started a Etoys User Manual on http://booki.flossmanuals.net/etoys-user-manual/ I did this mostly to have a place to put stuff I want to document about using Etoys. The format of the book will form over time I guess. I hope others will add stuff to this as well. Karl

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Computer Programming Tools in Schools . . . Etoys presentation
by Harness, Kathleen 24 Nov '12

24 Nov '12

Hello, This is a link to a presentation I made a few weeks ago at the Office for Mathematics, Science, and Technology Education UIUC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ecuvRxE1c The attachment, CPTS Etoys at a Glance, was the basis for the presentation. It maps the projects with comparative levels of difficulty and time. Regards, Kathleen

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Re: [squeakland] criticism (was: Learnable Programming)
by karl ramberg 15 Nov '12

15 Nov '12

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:30 AM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > Mark, > >> Jecel, you may be confounding two things: >> - Having a mental model: "seeing" a FOR loop in one's mind. >> - Seeing a visual representation of something like a FOR loop. > > That was my intention, which is why I used the same work for both cases > rather than the more proper "imagining" for the first one. > >> There's some research in the Spatial Intelligence and Learning Center >> (SILC, http://www.spatiallearning.org) that suggests that we encourage >> more of the former by doing less of the latter. A bad visual >> representation can actually lead you astray. Sketching and gesture may be >> more effective at encouraging the development of internal representations. > > Very true, but what interests me is if these internal representations > are always visual. For me they are, but Zed Shaw seems to think some > people can think of how programs work in purely linguistic terms. > > Of course, an external visual representation can get in the way of an > internal one. If you read a book and imagine how a given character looks > and what they sound like, it can be very jarring to see the movie with > an actor who is very different. > > So is the problem a matter of the teacher having a visual learning style > and the student a non visual one or is it a matter of the teacher's > visual style being different from the student's? > >> I blogged on Bret Victor's excellent essay here: >> http://computinged.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/learnable-programming-thinking- >> about-programming-languages-and-systems-in-a-new-way/ My concern is about >> the things that aren't easily translated into a visual form, like user >> input in the future and the Internet. > > But we are talking about the first lessons and in that case we can > choose the domain. We can select games or turtle graphics instead of > Fibonacci sequences. The visual stuff can be training wheels to be > outgrown. Though I prefer to always have stuff as visual as possible - > just compare the debugger in Self with the one in Squeak, for example. > > Karl wrote: >> I have seen Bret Victors stuff and found them a little lacking in the >> abstract side of programming. >> >> Much of computing hard to show as graphic. Graphics is good up to a >> certain limit where the complexity in the graphics is as hard to grasp >> as the language complexity in question. > > What can't be understood as a graph due to that becoming too complex and > yet can be understood in some other way? As I mentioned above, I am a > purely visual person and am limited by that. If other people can really > understand something as purely an equation or some other form and so can > do stuff that I can't, then great! But I can only design languages and > programming environment for people I know. If you look at something like a Venn diagram it is quite easy to read with 2 to 3 objects, but they get really hard to read when you get 5 or 6 it is quite challenging. I think much of visual presentation will show the same problems in that they don't scale. Text will also show the same problems as complexity grows. In Etoys it is hard to do scripting with many players and scripts. I do not have any numbers but there is a limit of scripts/ players that once crossed will make the workflow suffer quite a bit. Squeak also have this proliferation of browsers and other windows that become hard to keep track of after a few hours of work, > > The "people won't have to learn to program because of AI" idea was the > motivation behind the Fifth Generation project. But you still will have > to express your needs to the machine in some way. Spoken language can do > a lot, but drawings sometimes help. And then the computer has to show > the results. This is true. But I do believe the way we interface with computers today with programs, mouse and windows will play a much smaller role in the future. But true AI is quite far away. The little stuff that have been achieved is just scratching the surface of the real possibilities. What we do today will be looked upon as people today look at telegraph and Morse code. Karl > > -- Jecel > > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > squeakland(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland

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education team attends Google Doc Camp!!
by Rita Freudenberg 13 Nov '12

13 Nov '12

The education team of Squeakland got selected to attend Google Doc Camp 2012 in San Francisco [1]! This is a wonderful opportunity for us to create introductory material for teachers to be used in the classroom. We'll spend a week writing new material, using the existing resources and vast experiences of our fellow Etoys activists! I'm so excited to meet with the members of our group face-to-face, it's been some time since we talked directly instead of Skype or Google hangout. I expect this to be a busy, but successful week for us and for Squeakland. Greetings, Rita [1] https://sites.google.com/site/docsprintsummitv2/ Rita Freudenberg rita.freudenberg(a)ovgu.de

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Re: [squeakland] criticism (was: Learnable Programming)
by Guzdial, Mark 13 Nov '12

13 Nov '12

Jecel, you may be confounding two things: - Having a mental model: "seeing" a FOR loop in one's mind. - Seeing a visual representation of something like a FOR loop. There's some research in the Spatial Intelligence and Learning Center (SILC, http://www.spatiallearning.org) that suggests that we encourage more of the former by doing less of the latter. A bad visual representation can actually lead you astray. Sketching and gesture may be more effective at encouraging the development of internal representations. I blogged on Bret Victor's excellent essay here: http://computinged.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/learnable-programming-thinking- about-programming-languages-and-systems-in-a-new-way/ My concern is about the things that aren't easily translated into a visual form, like user input in the future and the Internet. Thank you for the Shaw link! Cheers, Mark On 11/12/12 2:44 PM, "Jecel Assumpcao Jr." <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: >I have just watched the talk "It's Not You, It's Them: Why Programming >Languages Are Hard To Teach" by Zed A. Shaw and he is very critical of >Bret Victor's ideas, and also mentioned "Squeak Toys" and Scratch as >examples of fallacies. > >> >>http://oredev.org/2012/sessions/its-not-you-its-them-why-programming-lang >>uages-are-hard-to-teach > >Though I disagree with nearly everything he says, it was still an >interesting talk. I think that in many cases he subtly misunderstood >some concepts. His complaint about the lack of formal studies, on the >other hand, is entirely valid. > >An example of his misunderstanding: he shows Bret saying "if a >programmer can't see something, then she can't understand it". Zed then >complains about mixing text and drawings and using rectangles as a >problem domain while the important things are concepts like "for". I am >with Bret on this one: if a person can't "see" how a "for" works, they >won't understand it. Most people who get good at programming as it is >now can see it perfectly in their own heads. Having a visual >representation animated on the screen will help the other people. Zed >just ignored the first case of seeing and says the second case is a >fallacy because "normal" people have trouble switching between >linguistic and visual modes. > >-- Jecel > >_______________________________________________ >squeakland mailing list >squeakland(a)squeakland.org >http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland

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Re: [squeakland] criticism (was: Learnable Programming)
by karl ramberg 12 Nov '12

12 Nov '12

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > I have just watched the talk "It's Not You, It's Them: Why Programming > Languages Are Hard To Teach" by Zed A. Shaw and he is very critical of > Bret Victor's ideas, and also mentioned "Squeak Toys" and Scratch as > examples of fallacies. > >> http://oredev.org/2012/sessions/its-not-you-its-them-why-programming-langua… > > Though I disagree with nearly everything he says, it was still an > interesting talk. I think that in many cases he subtly misunderstood > some concepts. His complaint about the lack of formal studies, on the > other hand, is entirely valid. > > An example of his misunderstanding: he shows Bret saying "if a > programmer can't see something, then she can't understand it". Zed then > complains about mixing text and drawings and using rectangles as a > problem domain while the important things are concepts like "for". I am > with Bret on this one: if a person can't "see" how a "for" works, they > won't understand it. Most people who get good at programming as it is > now can see it perfectly in their own heads. Having a visual > representation animated on the screen will help the other people. Zed > just ignored the first case of seeing and says the second case is a > fallacy because "normal" people have trouble switching between > linguistic and visual modes. > > -- Jecel > > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > squeakland(a)squeakland.org > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland I watched this also and found it interesting, I have seen Bret Victors stuff and found them a little lacking in the abstract side of programming. Much of computing hard to show as graphic. Graphics is good up to a certain limit where the complexity in the graphics is as hard to grasp as the language complexity in question. >From my own experience I learned Basic almost 30 years ago typing in listings from magazines. I learned of 'for loops' etc but was confounded by other programming languages that did not rely on line numbers and 'goto'. I had a hard time learning Smalltalk later because I did not see where the program was. I did not understand how the program executed, and it was hard using the tools because they required a understanding of how the program worked. I was intrigued by this system that was so elusive and strangely powerful. When I finally understood the basics it was very rewarding and I felt I had accomplished something. I do not think the general population will pursuit programming in it's current form thought, It is kind of like sudoku or cross word puzzles. It attracts a part of the population. The next big leap in computer use will probably entail a totally different use of computers, where the computer will be a full blown AI and the mulling of the computer internals are of very little interest but for specialists. Karl

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Learnable Programming
by Bert Freudenberg 12 Nov '12

12 Nov '12

Great essay by Bret Victor on "Designing a programming system for understanding programs": http://worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/ He clearly explains what makes a programming system "learnable". While Etoys does not do all of it, many of its features fit right in, in particular as compared to other widely used programming systems. An Etoys project can be always running, changes have effect immediately, all state is visible (through the readouts in viewers) and most of the state can be changed directly (e.g. by dragging up and down the number arrows), tiles have default arguments so they do something useful immediately, there is an explanation (balloon help) for each tile, etc. And maybe this essay inspires some improvements to Etoys :) - Bert -

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EtoysIllinois Middle School Pilot
by Harness, Kathleen 12 Nov '12

12 Nov '12

Hello, This was a TV report about the Etoys Pilot in Unit 4 Schools. Jessica Pitcher is a middle school teacher, Lenny Pitt is Professor and Director of Undergraduate Computer Science Programs, George Reese is Director of the Office of Mathematics, Science, and Technology Education. MSTE has been the home of EtoysIllinois since its inception. The Etoys segment was posted to WCIA’s site (http://illinoishomepage.net/fulltext?nxd_id=435832). Share freely. Regards, Kathleen

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Re: [squeakland] Learnable Programming
by David Corking 09 Nov '12

09 Nov '12

Squeakland twice hosted(*) Linda Kao's 37-page PDF tutorial for Kedama, and some example projects. They seem to be missing again. I have the PDF (I tried to send it to the list, but quite rightly, it seems that large attachments are blocked) and 2 of the 7 projects, but I don't have the Word document source. Did they make it onto flossmanuals? If not, can someone offer a permanent online home for them. Some of the projects are already updated and included in the examples section of the Etoys package. A couple of others need some tweaks to work in Etoys 5. So the appendix listing them needs a little updating. Rita Freudenberg wrote a shorter tutorial in German: http://www.mttcs.org/Projekte/Projekte/Squeak/material/kedama.pdf David (*) Some background here http://forum.world.st/kedama-tutorial-by-linda-kao-td711852.html ( another copy here http://lists.squeakland.org/pipermail/squeakland/2009-November/005027.html ) along with links to a brief tutorial by Yoshiki http://www.is.titech.ac.jp/~ohshima/squeak/kedama/ and some docs in French: http://community.ofset.org/index.php/Kedama

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May I recommend this video on education
by Carlos Rabassa 09 Nov '12

09 Nov '12

I found this 23-minute video to be excellent. It is in English with good Spanish subtitles. The speaker is a professor at Columbia University. The lecture is up to date, it took place yesterday. To watch the video you have to register at the site from the University of Buenos Aires, by following this link. You will reach a page where you will see a red button to clic "Inscribirse Ahora". Once you complete the registration, please return to the same page and click on "Con Expertos". At this new page click on "Jueves 8". Finally, select the lecture by Frank A. Moretti, of Columbia University. Registration is free. They don´t ask any intrusive questions. Prof. Moretti explains very clearly many of the problems we heard about since we became interested in Plan Ceibal / OLPC, a few years ago. He offers his very much interesting ideas on how to take advantage of the new technologies to improve education. Enjoy the video! Carlos Rabassa Montevideo, Uruguay

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squeakland November 2012