What is a good way to distribute squeak on a network (Windows network at my school) ?
From my understanding there is no option but to give each student their own
personal image file but the sources and changes files could be left out. http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/07/image-file-virtual-machine-bytecodes.h...
If I was going to give students both Bots and Squeak then this would result in quite large student folders, the image files range b/w 15 and 20 MB. But I don't see any alternative.
With Bots I get prompts about missing sources and changes files if I try to launch it outside of its folder, but it then goes ahead and loads anyway
I'll attach some file folders so people can refer to them in an answer, if necessary:
BOTS (file sizes in KB unless otherwise specified)
.DS_Store 7 Bots.exe 1053 Bots.ini 1 luth.frm 13 Ready.changes 16747 Ready.image 14841 spider.frm 18 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakV3.sources 14202
ETOYS IMAGE AND PR
etoys.image 19609 DemonCastle1.pr 582 Launcher.pr 210 Welcome.pr 385 ExampleEtoys (folder) 6.44 MB
SQUEAK 3.8
Squeak.exe 1053 Squeak3.8-6665full.image 17969 Squeak3.8-6665full.changes 13878 SqueakV3.sources 14202 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakFFIPrims.dll 30 windows folder SqueakPluginInstaller.exe 6325
cheers, - Bill
Good Day Bill,
I use Squeak routinely in my high school physics classes and haven't had any problems with the kids simply running from the same shared folder on a common drive of our school LAN. Of course I haven't had them use bots inc. so I can't comment on that however, I have had them refer to your Etoys Pong tutorial as a guide in constructing their own version.
I'm only half way through the *Squeak by Example* book by A.P. Black, S. Ducasse, O. Nierstrasz, and D. Pollet with D. Cassou and M. Denker; yet I have gained enough confidence to plan a few lessons for all my students to program from the system browser and debugger and save their programs as Monticello packages. Perhaps when I implement these lessons I will incur technical difficulties due to conflicting change sets or something however, I plan to instruct the students not to save their images but simply to save their work as Monticello packages in the package cache and online at SqueakSource.
Regards, Eric Eisaman
On Dec 10, 2007 5:50 PM, Bill Kerr billkerr@gmail.com wrote:
What is a good way to distribute squeak on a network (Windows network at my school) ?
From my understanding there is no option but to give each student their own personal image file but the sources and changes files could be left out.
http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/07/image-file-virtual-machine-bytecodes.h...
If I was going to give students both Bots and Squeak then this would result in quite large student folders, the image files range b/w 15 and 20 MB. But I don't see any alternative.
With Bots I get prompts about missing sources and changes files if I try to launch it outside of its folder, but it then goes ahead and loads anyway
I'll attach some file folders so people can refer to them in an answer, if necessary:
BOTS (file sizes in KB unless otherwise specified)
.DS_Store 7 Bots.exe 1053 Bots.ini 1 luth.frm 13 Ready.changes 16747 Ready.image 14841 spider.frm 18 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakV3.sources 14202
ETOYS IMAGE AND PR
etoys.image 19609 DemonCastle1.pr 582 Launcher.pr http://launcher.pr/ 210 Welcome.pr http://welcome.pr/ 385 ExampleEtoys (folder) 6.44 MB
SQUEAK 3.8
Squeak.exe 1053 Squeak3.8-6665full.image 17969 Squeak3.8-6665full.changes 13878 SqueakV3.sources 14202 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakFFIPrims.dll 30 windows folder SqueakPluginInstaller.exe 6325
cheers,
- Bill
-- Bill Kerr http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Bill Kerr wrote:
What is a good way to distribute squeak on a network (Windows network at my school) ?
From my understanding there is no option but to give each student their own personal image file but the sources and changes files could be left out. http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/07/image-file-virtual-machine-bytecodes.h...
If I was going to give students both Bots and Squeak then this would result in quite large student folders, the image files range b/w 15 and 20 MB. But I don't see any alternative.
With Bots I get prompts about missing sources and changes files if I try to launch it outside of its folder, but it then goes ahead and loads anyway
Bots can be loaded as a project and is around 200k. Stephane is building a bundle for the XO machine with BotsInc. It would be great if we could make bundles work outside the XO platform so we could distribute projects as double clickable starting points
Karl
I'll attach some file folders so people can refer to them in an answer, if necessary:
BOTS (file sizes in KB unless otherwise specified)
.DS_Store 7 Bots.exe 1053 Bots.ini 1 luth.frm 13 Ready.changes 16747 Ready.image 14841 spider.frm 18 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakV3.sources 14202
ETOYS IMAGE AND PR
etoys.image 19609 DemonCastle1.pr 582 Launcher.pr http://Launcher.pr 210 Welcome.pr http://Welcome.pr 385 ExampleEtoys (folder) 6.44 MB
SQUEAK 3.8
Squeak.exe 1053 Squeak3.8-6665full.image 17969 Squeak3.8-6665full.changes 13878 SqueakV3.sources 14202 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakFFIPrims.dll 30 windows folder SqueakPluginInstaller.exe 6325
cheers,
- Bill
-- Bill Kerr http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:06 , karl wrote:
Bots can be loaded as a project and is around 200k. Stephane is building a bundle for the XO machine with BotsInc. It would be great if we could make bundles work outside the XO platform so we could distribute projects as double clickable starting points
Well, the .xo bundles only really make sense on the OLPC platform.
The cross-platform format would still be projects (.pr files). Even on the XO you can simply click a .pr to launch it.
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:06 , karl wrote:
Bots can be loaded as a project and is around 200k. Stephane is building a bundle for the XO machine with BotsInc. It would be great if we could make bundles work outside the XO platform so we could distribute projects as double clickable starting points
Well, the .xo bundles only really make sense on the OLPC platform.
The cross-platform format would still be projects (.pr files). Even on the XO you can simply click a .pr to launch it.
Ok, so double clicking on a project could be made work on other platforms as well.
Karl
It used to work on all platforms ...
Cheers,
Alan
---------
At 01:21 AM 12/12/2007, Karl wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:06 , karl wrote:
Bots can be loaded as a project and is around 200k. Stephane is building a bundle for the XO machine with BotsInc. It would be great if we could make bundles work outside the XO platform so we could distribute projects as double clickable starting points
Well, the .xo bundles only really make sense on the OLPC platform.
The cross-platform format would still be projects (.pr files). Even on the XO you can simply click a .pr to launch it.
Ok, so double clicking on a project could be made work on other platforms as well.
Karl
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Alan Kay wrote:
It used to work on all platforms ...
Cheers,
Alan
Hm, maybe it still does, on machines with just one image file present... My machines tend have quite a few and that can confuse the VM which to pick ?? I have not looked into this very much ;-)
Karl
At 01:21 AM 12/12/2007, Karl wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Dec 11, 2007, at 3:06 , karl wrote:
Bots can be loaded as a project and is around 200k. Stephane is building a bundle for the XO machine with BotsInc. It would be great if we could make bundles work outside the XO platform so we could distribute projects as double clickable starting points
Well, the .xo bundles only really make sense on the OLPC platform.
The cross-platform format would still be projects (.pr files). Even on the XO you can simply click a .pr to launch it.
Ok, so double clicking on a project could be made work on other platforms as well.
Karl
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
On Dec 10, 2007, at 13:35 , Bill Kerr wrote:
What is a good way to distribute squeak on a network (Windows network at my school) ?
From my understanding there is no option but to give each student their own personal image file but the sources and changes files could be left out. http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/07/image-file-virtual-machine- bytecodes.html
If I was going to give students both Bots and Squeak then this would result in quite large student folders, the image files range b/w 15 and 20 MB. But I don't see any alternative.
Well, as long as you do not need students to be able to save their own images, a single copy on the server should work quite well. You just need to fiddle with the squeak.ini file so everyone gets their own UserDirectory for storing projects and SecureDirectory for the project signing keys:
http://www.squeakvm.org/win32/settings.html
And as Karl wrote, Stef prepared a version of BotsInc that works on the OLPC etoys image, so you would only need one image, changes, and sources file.
- Bert -
With Bots I get prompts about missing sources and changes files if I try to launch it outside of its folder, but it then goes ahead and loads anyway
I'll attach some file folders so people can refer to them in an answer, if necessary:
BOTS (file sizes in KB unless otherwise specified)
.DS_Store 7 Bots.exe 1053 Bots.ini 1 luth.frm 13 Ready.changes 16747 Ready.image 14841 spider.frm 18 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakV3.sources 14202
ETOYS IMAGE AND PR
etoys.image 19609 DemonCastle1.pr 582 Launcher.pr 210 Welcome.pr 385 ExampleEtoys (folder) 6.44 MB
SQUEAK 3.8
Squeak.exe 1053 Squeak3.8-6665full.image 17969 Squeak3.8-6665full.changes 13878 SqueakV3.sources 14202 Squeak.ini 1 SqueakFFIPrims.dll 30 windows folder SqueakPluginInstaller.exe 6325
cheers,
- Bill
-- Bill Kerr http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/
On Dec 12, 2007 6:23 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
And as Karl wrote, Stef prepared a version of BotsInc that works on
the OLPC etoys image, so you would only need one image, changes, and sources file.
thanks for useful responses Eric, Karl, Bert,
When will the BotsInc image that works on OLPC etoys be ready?
Hi bill
I'm not sure that my other emails reach you If you need urgently BotsInc there is a OLPC compatible version. I sent around. Here it is. I'm currently trying to get some time to produce an xo bundle. based on it.
It does not inlcude shout related facility for the code coloring,
On 12 déc. 07, at 12:25, Bill Kerr wrote:
On Dec 12, 2007 6:23 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
And as Karl wrote, Stef prepared a version of BotsInc that works on the OLPC etoys image, so you would only need one image, changes, and sources file.
thanks for useful responses Eric, Karl, Bert,
When will the BotsInc image that works on OLPC etoys be ready?
-- Bill Kerr http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
On Dec 12, 2007 6:23 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On Dec 10, 2007, at 13:35 , Bill Kerr wrote:
What is a good way to distribute squeak on a network (Windows network at my school) ?
From my understanding there is no option but to give each student their own personal image file but the sources and changes files could be left out. http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/07/image-file-virtual-machine- bytecodes.html
If I was going to give students both Bots and Squeak then this would result in quite large student folders, the image files range b/w 15 and 20 MB. But I don't see any alternative.
Well, as long as you do not need students to be able to save their own images, a single copy on the server should work quite well. You just need to fiddle with the squeak.ini file so everyone gets their own UserDirectory for storing projects and SecureDirectory for the project signing keys:
Fiddling with the squeak.ini or bots.ini file doesn't seem to change anything
squeak seems to ignore [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles in squeak.ini
and just defaults to
"C:\My Squeak%USERNAME%"
so you stuck with that directory for saving in (which won't be acceptable at my school)
All the *.ini files I have looked at in squeak / bots distributions don't have a UserDirectory line in them
try pasting into the transcript SecurityManager default untrustedUserDirectory and using printIt --> squeak seems to ignore [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles in squeak.ini
try pasting into the transcript SecurityManager default untrustedUserDirectory and using printIt --> 'C:\My Squeak\user'
or
SecurityManager default secureUserDirectory then printit --> 'C:\Program Files\Squeak\Plugin\user'
So, is it possible to run bots on a network off the one image so that users can only save their scripts?
What are other people using bots in schools with networks actually doing?
On Jan 21, 2008, at 13:33 , Bill Kerr wrote:
On Dec 12, 2007 6:23 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
You just need to fiddle with the squeak.ini file so everyone gets their own UserDirectory for storing projects and SecureDirectory for the project signing keys:
Fiddling with the squeak.ini or bots.ini file doesn't seem to change anything
squeak seems to ignore [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles in squeak.ini
and just defaults to
"C:\My Squeak%USERNAME%"
so you stuck with that directory for saving in (which won't be acceptable at my school)
What VM version are you running? This should definitely work - please try the latest:
http://www.squeakvm.org/win32/
- Bert -
On Jan 22, 2008 12:24 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On Jan 21, 2008, at 13:33 , Bill Kerr wrote:
On Dec 12, 2007 6:23 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
You just need to fiddle with the squeak.ini file so everyone gets their own UserDirectory for storing projects and SecureDirectory for the project signing keys:
Fiddling with the squeak.ini or bots.ini file doesn't seem to change anything
squeak seems to ignore [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles in squeak.ini
and just defaults to
"C:\My Squeak%USERNAME%"
so you stuck with that directory for saving in (which won't be acceptable at my school)
What VM version are you running? This should definitely work - please try the latest:
hi bert,
adding this to the ini file: [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles
For squeak3.9 it does offer me and make an etoy it does offer me my designated C:\botsFiles folder as an option which I can choose. It also automatically sets up a Squeaklets folder as a subdirectory and then if I click the save button will save to both folders
My problem is with bots when trying to save the scripts only to a designated folder
bot workspace context menu > save contents
I can't get it to save automatically to the designated folder - I have to type in the path eg. C:\botsFiles\square
Changing the ini file doesn't help for this case
I tried dropping in later versions of the VM into the bots folder but that didn't work either
- Bill
On Jan 21, 2008, at 23:30 , Bill Kerr wrote:
hi bert,
adding this to the ini file: [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles
For squeak3.9 it does offer me and make an etoy it does offer me my designated C:\botsFiles folder as an option which I can choose. It also automatically sets up a Squeaklets folder as a subdirectory and then if I click the save button will save to both folders
My problem is with bots when trying to save the scripts only to a designated folder
bot workspace context menu > save contents
I can't get it to save automatically to the designated folder - I have to type in the path eg. C:\botsFiles\square
Changing the ini file doesn't help for this case
I tried dropping in later versions of the VM into the bots folder but that didn't work either
Well probably Bots Inc is not paying attention to the user directory setting. Maybe simply enabling the startupInUntrustedDirectory preference is enough to make it work?
- Bert -
Well probably Bots Inc is not paying attention to the user directory setting.
certainly. I was not aware of that concept
Stef
Maybe simply enabling the startupInUntrustedDirectory preference is enough to make it work?
- Bert -
hi stef,
what I'm asking is what do people who use bots in schools on networks do? - give users the image? - run it off one image and save scripts to user directory by typing in a path? - other possibilities?
cheers, - Bill
On Jan 22, 2008 8:04 PM, stéphane ducasse ducasse@iam.unibe.ch wrote:
Well probably Bots Inc is not paying attention to the user directory setting.
certainly. I was not aware of that concept
Stef
Maybe simply enabling the startupInUntrustedDirectory preference is enough to make it work?
- Bert -
Hi Bill
what I'm asking is what do people who use bots in schools on networks do?
- give users the image?
- run it off one image and save scripts to user directory by typing
in a path?
- other possibilities?
I do not really know since people never told me. Now I know that in the school where my wife was they copied the image and the vm to all the machines to avoid that a crash of the server would block all the kids.
I could try to produce a smaller image if you need it.
Stef
------------------------ Stéphane Ducasse USTL - LILF - CNRS UMR 8022 - INRIA stephane.ducasse@inria.fr http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
"if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes
Tel 33 3 59 57 78 66 - Fax 33 3 59 57 78 50 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza, Villeneuve d'Ascq, FR-59650, France.
Hi all,
I use Bots Inc with my freshmen students in university. I give them the image and we share code exporting the proper functionality as a *st file. May be next semester we will learn to use Monticello or another tool to share code with versions control, but for the moment this have worked pretty well.
Cheers,
Offray
Bill Kerr escribió:
hi stef,
what I'm asking is what do people who use bots in schools on networks do?
- give users the image?
- run it off one image and save scripts to user directory by typing in
a path?
- other possibilities?
cheers,
- Bill
On Jan 22, 2008 8:04 PM, stéphane ducasse <ducasse@iam.unibe.ch mailto:ducasse@iam.unibe.ch> wrote:
> > > > Well probably Bots Inc is not paying attention to the user directory > setting. certainly. I was not aware of that concept Stef > Maybe simply enabling the startupInUntrustedDirectory preference is > enough to make it work? > > - Bert - > >
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
On Jan 22, 2008 9:56 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On Jan 21, 2008, at 23:30 , Bill Kerr wrote:
hi bert,
adding this to the ini file: [Security] UserDirectory=C:\botsFiles
For squeak3.9 it does offer me and make an etoy it does offer me my designated C:\botsFiles folder as an option which I can choose. It also automatically sets up a Squeaklets folder as a subdirectory and then if I click the save button will save to both folders
My problem is with bots when trying to save the scripts only to a designated folder
bot workspace context menu > save contents
I can't get it to save automatically to the designated folder - I have to type in the path eg. C:\botsFiles\square
Changing the ini file doesn't help for this case
I tried dropping in later versions of the VM into the bots folder but that didn't work either
Well probably Bots Inc is not paying attention to the user directory setting. Maybe simply enabling the startupInUntrustedDirectory preference is enough to make it work?
- Bert -
thanks Bert, with the help of a friend (Paul) I have this working now
To set startupInUntrustedDirectory preference in botsInc smalltalk image
bring up the world menu (middle click on world/desktop - click on red menu halo) click on desktop menu...
click on help ... click on preferences...
click on security category up the top (blue background) check box startInUntrustedDirectory
now open ----- file... will show a list of files in the directory you specified in the ini file and bot workspace ----- 'save contents' will save in that directory
- Bill
squeakland@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Alan Kay -
Bert Freudenberg -
Bill Kerr -
Eric Eisaman -
karl -
Karl
-
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas -
stéphane ducasse