Precisely. And since the private education list is being phased out, that discussion should happen here on squeakland. We only have two general lists (squeakland and etoys-dev) and if at all possible, all discussion should happen there.

Btw, even if you think not everyone would be interested in your problem, that is no reason to use private mail. Only sensitive issues that would do harm if published should be kept private. This is how the community comes into existence.

(I'm usually too polite to not answer private mails that could have been asked on-list. It would be a good policy though. There are very very few things that no-one else could answer. Hopefully none.)

- Bert -

On 20.05.2010, at 02:41, Steve Thomas sthomas1@gosargon.com wrote:

Thanks for the clarification and the book recommendation. general principle: if you're just adding data to an issue, then do it in the tracker, but if you're starting a conversation, then do it on the mailing list.

When in doubt I will start on mailing list.

Just to be clear and ensure I understand, it seemed to me that not being able to remove the tile was a bug (or a User Interface issue) that should have been entered in Issue Tracker.

The discussion about work arounds and how it could be addressed should have been directed to the mailing lists: Education (as this is Usability Issue) and Development so they are aware of the discussion and can add value.

Once the discussion was complete (or mostly done) a link to the conversation (at least the interesting parts) could be added to the Issue.

So my limited understanding is: The Issue Tracker should simply contain definitions of the problem and how to re-create/test Mailing lists are for educational/design discussions and documenting use cases Stephen

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Bert Freu denberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote: Folks,

please do *not* misuse the bug tracker for discussion. It is only for tracking progress on an issue - the actual discussion and decision needs to happen here on list.

And since this issue needs input from the education folks, it needs to be on squeakland, not just the developers list.

Here is some rational about this:

   http://producingoss.com/en/bug-tracker-usage.html

It is one section from a book on best practices in open software projects, highly recommended reading:

   http://producingoss.com/

• Bert -

On 19.05.2010, at 03:40, David Corking (JIRA) wrote:

...

[ http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-704 ]

David Corking commented on SQ-704:

Good idea Stephen. A delete handle or a move handle would indeed

by useful (an experienced user can of course blue click 7 times until the PhraseTile's halo appears.)

...

Alternatively, the syntax of the function tile could be

drastically re-designed, so it becomes a message to an object, such as

...

Car's heading degreeTan to replace the present degreeTan (Car's heading) The advantage would be that in an ordinary Etoys message, there is

a consistent rule to click and drag tiles.

...

Before discussing either change, I would be interested to hear the

impact this has had in actual classrooms or after school clubs. Do users who don't find the 'remove function' action spot a workaround: (drag and trash the unwanted Test tile, then add a new one)?

...

...

If you put a function in a TEST Tile you can't remove it

           Key: SQ-704
           URL: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-704
       Project: squeakland
    Issue Type: Bug
    Components: etoys
      Reporter: Stephen Thomas

To re-create

1. put a Test/Yes/No tile in a script
2. from the treasure chest in Script Editor drag random or abs

into the Test

...

...

3. Try and remove the random or abs from the Test

You can do this with other tiles in the Test, but not functions,

because it seems each area you click on has a mouse down behavior.