Texto en Español después del Inglés

Dear Dr. Kay,

Thanks for honoring my message with your reply.

I am one of your most enthusiastic fans and promoters of Etoys and other applications used here by Plan Ceibal.

The most important point I tried to make got lost in my long message.

I see a problem in Uruguay:

I see too many teachers, relatives of schoolchildren and volunteers, concerned about learning Linux/Sugar.

That is good but,

it is difficult, particularly after after teaching class all day, to study Linux/Sugar and still have enough time and energy left to take full advantage of all the educational applications such as Etoys pre-installed in the XOs.

These wonderful applications have been written by the best teams of computer scientists and teachers in the world, and are ready and well debugged, waiting to be used extensively.

Your comments on this problem could mean invaluable help to many of us here in Uruguay and around the world.

Sincerely,

Carlos Rabassa Volunteer Plan Ceibal Support Network Montevideo, Uruguay

Texto en Español:

Apreciado Dr. Kay,

Gracias por honrar mi mensaje con su respuesta.

Soy uno de sus más entusiastas admiradores y promotor de Etoys y otras aplicaciones usadas aquí por Plan Ceibal.

El punto más importante que traté de expresar, se perdió en mi largo mensaje.

Veo un problema en Uruguay:

Veo a demasiados maestros, familiares y voluntarios, preocupados por aprender Linux/Sugar.

Eso es bueno pero,

es difícil, especialmente después de enseñar todo el día, estudiar Linux/Sugar y todavía tener suficiente tiempo y energía para sacar todo el provecho posible a todas las aplicaciones educativas, tales como Etoys, pre-instaladas en las XOs.

Estas maravillosas aplicaciones han sido escritas por los mejores equipos de científicos de la computación y maestros del mundo, y están listos y bien depurados, esperando para que se usen extensivamente.

Sus comentarios sobre este problema serían de una ayuda invalorable para muchos de nosotros aquí en Uruguay y en el resto del mundo.

Sincereamente,

Carlos Rabassa Voluntario Red de Apoyo al Plan Ceibal Montevideo, Uruguay

On Jan 30, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Alan Kay wrote:

GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)?

Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was).

And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since 1982.

Cheers,

Alan

From: Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com To: america-latina@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 maho@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-sur@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-bolivia@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcpuno@gmail.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ-l5KUJ_PWkQruLDx-nZ7nsKDfg4...

Carlos Rabassa _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Hi Chunka,

I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980.

This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions.

Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of "innovation" based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed.

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________ From: Chunka Mui chunka@cornerloft.com To: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com; "america-latina@squeakland.org" america-latina@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 maho@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-sur@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-bolivia@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcpuno@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com wrote:

GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)?

Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was).

And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since 1982.

Alan -- Could you say more about this point? Surely there's been tons of CS and IT funding since '82, both govt funding to universities and massive research budgets at msft, hp,

Regards, Chunka

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________ From: Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com

To: america-latina@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 maho@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-sur@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-bolivia@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcpuno@gmail.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ-l5KUJ_PWkQruLDx-nZ7nsKDfg4...

Carlos Rabassa _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

_______________________________________________

squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland

Hi Ron,

I've already played this game ad nauseum with many groups on the web. So I urge everyone to rise above the temptation to name your favorite idea that seems "new".

But do you really think there were no peer to peer and cloud computing systems already deployed before 1980? (Hint: I used both quite a lot back then, and for a short time actually was in charge of an ARPA task group to define an AI "cloud resource" for the already running ARPAnet -- the one that got built was a multiple processor system (C.mmp) designed by Gordon Bell)

For much larger issues and inventions than DHT, let me refer you to the 1978 PhD thesis of David Reed (popularly known as "the '/' in TCP/IP") at MIT.1978. If you haven't heard of David or read this thesis, then this helps make my main point.

Since it would be really improbable for me to be aware of all developments after 1980 (and even some before), I don't claim there have been none.

I simply asked for 3 (or even one) since 1980 comparable to personal computing, GUIs, the Internet, Engelbart's notion of "online system", etc. Previous essays into this yielded many suggestions, but I was able to identify prior art for all such.

For example, Tim Berners-Lee was suitably embarrassed when he found out about Engelbart - first for the web not doing as well in the design, goals and execution, and secondly, because as a physicist he would have been drummed out of Physics if he had not tried to "stand on the shoulders of giants" (as Newton said), and he had assumed falsely (and I think partly because our field is so careless about its historical great steps up) that computing had no Netwons, and the Internet had somehow just appeared without thought out purposes, and he failed to look for them.

Best wishes,

Alan

________________________________ From: Ron Teitelbaum horont@earthlink.net To: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com; Chunka Mui chunka@cornerloft.com Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-sur@lists.laptop.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org; america-latina@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com; Maho 2010 maho@realness.org; olpc bolivia olpc-bolivia@lists.laptop.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; OLPC Puno olpcpuno@gmail.com Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 7:28:18 AM Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Alan,

One thing that comes to mind right away is DHT research. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the 90’ saw the birth of DHT, P2P and Cloud Computing.

Ron Teitelbaum

From:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Alan Kay Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:12 PM To: Chunka Mui Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org mailing list; america-latina@squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Chunka,

I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980.

This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions.

Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of "innovation" based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed.

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________

From:Chunka Mui chunka@cornerloft.com To: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Cc: Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com; "america-latina@squeakland.org" america-latina@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 maho@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-sur@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-bolivia@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcpuno@gmail.com Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com wrote: GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)?

Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was).

And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since 1982.

Alan -- Could you say more about this point? Surely there's been tons of CS and IT funding since '82, both govt funding to universities and massive research budgets at msft, hp,

Regards, Chunka

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________

From:Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com To: america-latina@squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org; Maho 2010 maho@realness.org; IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes olpc-sur@lists.laptop.org; olpc bolivia olpc-bolivia@lists.laptop.org; OLPC Puno olpcpuno@gmail.com Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ-l5KUJ_PWkQruLDx-nZ7nsKDfg4...

Carlos Rabassa _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

_______________________________________________

squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland