I honestly can't remember now what it was like w/ etoys "classic" on Windows, but for OLPC etoys on OSX, I'll just comment that it seems confusing that the "Quit Squeak VM" menu item is disable and one quits via File->"Quit do not save". In spite of the fact that I know I've just saved/kept a current project, being told to "Quit do not save" strikes me as the wrong thing to say and would seem to really confuse a child.
just an observation :) -Randy
On Sep 27, 2007, at 9:34 , Randy Heiland wrote:
I honestly can't remember now what it was like w/ etoys "classic" on Windows, but for OLPC etoys on OSX, I'll just comment that it seems confusing that the "Quit Squeak VM" menu item is disable and one quits via File->"Quit do not save". In spite of the fact that I know I've just saved/kept a current project, being told to "Quit do not save" strikes me as the wrong thing to say and would seem to really confuse a child.
just an observation :)
You're not supposed to use that menu option ;)
But I agree, this has always been distracting. Now we actually do support the window close request in the Etoys image. It works fine on Linux, when you close the Etoys window it will ask if you want to really quit and then you can say yes/no. We just have to find out how to coerce the Mac VM to also issue that event when clicking the window close box or choosing the quit menu item. Cc'ing John to explain ...
- Bert -
On Sep 27, 2007, at 17:42 , Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Sep 27, 2007, at 9:34 , Randy Heiland wrote:
I honestly can't remember now what it was like w/ etoys "classic" on Windows, but for OLPC etoys on OSX, I'll just comment that it seems confusing that the "Quit Squeak VM" menu item is disable and one quits via File->"Quit do not save". In spite of the fact that I know I've just saved/kept a current project, being told to "Quit do not save" strikes me as the wrong thing to say and would seem to really confuse a child.
just an observation :)
You're not supposed to use that menu option ;)
But I agree, this has always been distracting. Now we actually do support the window close request in the Etoys image. It works fine on Linux, when you close the Etoys window it will ask if you want to really quit and then you can say yes/no. We just have to find out how to coerce the Mac VM to also issue that event when clicking the window close box or choosing the quit menu item. Cc'ing John to explain ...
Ah. The window close button can be enabled by setting SqueakWindowAttribute to <8200001f > in the VM's info.plist. And when pressing it, the image indeed asks and then quits. Yay! Now we just need to find out how to change the menu ...
- Bert -
The Scratch application uses the same macintosh VM, however they use the macintosh menu package to customize the menu to clean up the quit menu item confusion.
Historically the "quit do not save" menu item was there to enable the Squeak developers to quit the macintosh VM without involving the Smalltalk code. This was handy when your Squeak image had crashed. Today under os-x it's quit easy for a user to do a force quit via the Dock or Process list. The "Quit Squeak VM" by default is disable because that triggers a quit application event which is not handled by the Smalltalk code unless you load and configure the macintosh menu package. I had sent that work to the 3.10 team in January of this year for integration.
For EToys I could suggest.
(a) Customize the mac menus to set them up the way they should be and handle the quit menu item, as per the 3.10 team, or as Scratch has done.
(b) Customize the VM info.plist to set a close window control on the main window, then use the ffenestri logic to see that a close window event for window "0" has happened. I'll note the current VM supports running without a window, also see the info.plist entry SqueakExplicitWindowOpenNeeded to setup the VM to use ffenestri logic to open the window via smalltalk coding, versus VM control.
(c) Lastly use the info.plist entry SqueakQuitOnQuitAppleEvent to terminate squeak if the operating system sents a quit application event (usually happens at logout time).
The last time item (b) and (c) would require a VM for Etoys. Option (a) would work with any VM created in the last few years.
On Sep 27, 2007, at 8:42 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Sep 27, 2007, at 9:34 , Randy Heiland wrote:
I honestly can't remember now what it was like w/ etoys "classic" on Windows, but for OLPC etoys on OSX, I'll just comment that it seems confusing that the "Quit Squeak VM" menu item is disable and one quits via File->"Quit do not save". In spite of the fact that I know I've just saved/kept a current project, being told to "Quit do not save" strikes me as the wrong thing to say and would seem to really confuse a child.
just an observation :)
You're not supposed to use that menu option ;)
But I agree, this has always been distracting. Now we actually do support the window close request in the Etoys image. It works fine on Linux, when you close the Etoys window it will ask if you want to really quit and then you can say yes/no. We just have to find out how to coerce the Mac VM to also issue that event when clicking the window close box or choosing the quit menu item. Cc'ing John to explain ...
- Bert -
-- ======================================================================== === John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ======================================================================== ===
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