Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
--David Mitchell
-----Original Message----- From: Alan Kay [mailto:Alan.Kay@squeakland.org] Sent: Tue 8/19/2003 9:36 AM To: John Voiklis; squeakland@squeakland.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even more Greek, and more appropriate. Cheers, Alan ----- At 1:36 PM -0400 8/18/03, John Voiklis wrote: >This came to me during mile five (the idea mile) of a recent long jog; so, >take it with a grain of salt. > >Given that objects in Tweak will be neither Morphs nor traditional objects, >I wonder if Andreas would consider calling a Tweak object a "Pragma" (a >thing, for the Greekless); that way the computer scientists, educators, and >epistemologists among us could develop a theory of "Pragmatic Programming," >while avoiding confusion with the various kinds of object-orientedness found >in Smalltalk and other languages. > >I have not fully thought this out yet, but the idea struck me as fertile >enough to risk embarrassing myself by making it public. > >Best, > >John > >_______________________________________________ >Squeakland mailing list >Squeakland@squeakland.org >http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland -- _______________________________________________ Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even more Greek, and more appropriate.
I like it; I'll try a seven mile run and mull it over. In the end though it isn't my call; still, whatever it is, I would love to help in developing the theory and practice.
Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
On the one hand, I like the half-kidding optimism, one the other such a term has a progandistic tinge. Maybe one could start with the spirit of Alan's term, Idea Processing, and come up with a clever yet self-evidently appropriate turn of phrase.
Again, it is not up to me, but I look forward to the intellectual work to come.
Best,
J
Hi John and all,
Thanks for all these ideas. I guess with the "pragma" idea then Tweak should be called the "Pragmatist" with the "idea" the "Idealist" (or are those the users of the system??? hm... ;-)
Well, I guess I'll wait until you're back from the seven mile run and see what your feelings are then ;-)
Cheers, - Andreas
-----Original Message----- From: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of John Voiklis Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:16 PM To: squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even
more Greek,
and more appropriate.
I like it; I'll try a seven mile run and mull it over. In the end though it isn't my call; still, whatever it is, I would love to help in developing the theory and practice.
Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
On the one hand, I like the half-kidding optimism, one the other such a term has a progandistic tinge. Maybe one could start with the spirit of Alan's term, Idea Processing, and come up with a clever yet self-evidently appropriate turn of phrase.
Again, it is not up to me, but I look forward to the intellectual work to come.
Best,
J
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
The run yielded nothing; oh well.
I only brought the whole thing up because, from what I have heard of Tweak, it is a new way of doing things. I feel we need a new vocabulary to make sure it is recognized as such; otherwise we may find that we spend most of our time explaining how and why this differs from other object-oriented and/or prototype languages.
Anyway, I am being too serious, all of the sudden. I simply wanted to throw an idea into the mix; in the same way that you, Andreas, have said that the syntax of a programming environment is part of its UI, I believe the words we use to describe the environment inevitably shape the environment and how we work there.
Again, I need to lighten up. It's best I get back to the docs that I promised to post.
--J
-----Original Message----- From: Andreas Raab [mailto:andreas.raab@squeakland.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:41 PM To: 'John Voiklis'; squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Hi John and all,
Thanks for all these ideas. I guess with the "pragma" idea then Tweak should be called the "Pragmatist" with the "idea" the "Idealist" (or are those the users of the system??? hm... ;-)
Well, I guess I'll wait until you're back from the seven mile run and see what your feelings are then ;-)
Cheers, - Andreas
-----Original Message----- From: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of John Voiklis Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:16 PM To: squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even
more Greek,
and more appropriate.
I like it; I'll try a seven mile run and mull it over. In the end though it isn't my call; still, whatever it is, I would love to help in developing the theory and practice.
Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
On the one hand, I like the half-kidding optimism, one the other such a term has a progandistic tinge. Maybe one could start with the spirit of Alan's term, Idea Processing, and come up with a clever yet self-evidently appropriate turn of phrase.
Again, it is not up to me, but I look forward to the intellectual work to come.
Best,
J
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
John --
Actually, our main partners are children, teachers, and parents, and none of them will be interested in knowing how Tweak differs or is similar to other object systems. They just want to do stuff, and we need to show them and help them. Computer jocks can ask questions about the model on the Squeak list.
This is why my answer was facetious .....
Cheers,
Alan
------
At 12:27 PM -0400 8/20/03, John Voiklis wrote:
The run yielded nothing; oh well.
I only brought the whole thing up because, from what I have heard of Tweak, it is a new way of doing things. I feel we need a new vocabulary to make sure it is recognized as such; otherwise we may find that we spend most of our time explaining how and why this differs from other object-oriented and/or prototype languages.
Anyway, I am being too serious, all of the sudden. I simply wanted to throw an idea into the mix; in the same way that you, Andreas, have said that the syntax of a programming environment is part of its UI, I believe the words we use to describe the environment inevitably shape the environment and how we work there.
Again, I need to lighten up. It's best I get back to the docs that I promised to post.
--J
-----Original Message----- From: Andreas Raab [mailto:andreas.raab@squeakland.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:41 PM To: 'John Voiklis'; squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Hi John and all,
Thanks for all these ideas. I guess with the "pragma" idea then Tweak should be called the "Pragmatist" with the "idea" the "Idealist" (or are those the users of the system??? hm... ;-)
Well, I guess I'll wait until you're back from the seven mile run and see what your feelings are then ;-)
Cheers,
- Andreas
-----Original Message----- From: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of John Voiklis Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:16 PM To: squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even
more Greek,
and more appropriate.
I like it; I'll try a seven mile run and mull it over. In the end though it isn't my call; still, whatever it is, I would love to help in developing the theory and practice.
Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
On the one hand, I like the half-kidding optimism, one the other such a term has a progandistic tinge. Maybe one could start with the spirit of Alan's term, Idea Processing, and come up with a clever yet self-evidently appropriate turn of phrase.
Again, it is not up to me, but I look forward to the intellectual work to come.
Best,
J
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
--
This is why my answer was facetious .....
No need to explain; when I am not busy obsessing over words, I share your attitude about what is the real work on this list and in general.
I could tell that I was coming off too serious, and should have added my own winking character... ;)
...Actually, now that I am winking, today's run yielded another idea about how the transition from novice to intermediate to expert might be handled:
-Novices could use a reduced tile (or other graphical programming widget) set, only the most commonly used properties and behaviors (similar to what I saw with Jive)
-For intermediates one could provide a tile builder, a tool with which the user can create custom tiles.
-Experts, who have begun to find graphical programming unsuited to their needs, can move on to Smalltalk or whatever the underlying language
Again this idea is rather unripe, but I wonder if anyone thinks it's worth developing further.
Best,
John
Cheers,
Alan
At 12:27 PM -0400 8/20/03, John Voiklis wrote:
The run yielded nothing; oh well.
I only brought the whole thing up because, from what I have heard of Tweak, it is a new way of doing things. I feel we need a new vocabulary to make sure it is recognized as such; otherwise we may find that we spend most of our time explaining how and why this differs from other object-oriented and/or prototype languages.
Anyway, I am being too serious, all of the sudden. I simply wanted to throw an idea into the mix; in the same way that you, Andreas, have said that the syntax of a programming environment is part of its UI, I believe the words we use to describe the environment inevitably shape the environment and how we work there.
Again, I need to lighten up. It's best I get back to the docs that I promised to post.
--J
-----Original Message----- From: Andreas Raab [mailto:andreas.raab@squeakland.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:41 PM To: 'John Voiklis'; squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Hi John and all,
Thanks for all these ideas. I guess with the "pragma" idea then Tweak should be called the "Pragmatist" with the "idea" the "Idealist" (or are those the users of the system??? hm... ;-)
Well, I guess I'll wait until you're back from the seven mile run and see what your feelings are then ;-)
Cheers,
- Andreas
-----Original Message----- From: squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-bounces@squeakland.org] On Behalf Of John Voiklis Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:16 PM To: squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even
more Greek,
and more appropriate.
I like it; I'll try a seven mile run and mull it over. In the end though it isn't my call; still, whatever it is, I would love to help in developing the theory and practice.
Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
On the one hand, I like the half-kidding optimism, one the other such a term has a progandistic tinge. Maybe one could start with the spirit of Alan's term, Idea Processing, and come up with a clever yet self-evidently appropriate turn of phrase.
Again, it is not up to me, but I look forward to the intellectual work to come.
Best,
J
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
--
I alway think of something clever to say after I send a message...
How about calling a Tweak object an "Idea" and call programming "Thinking."
...Clever but not self-evidently appropriate.
-J -----Original Message----- From: Mitchell, David [CC] [mailto:David.Mitchell@mail.sprint.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:49 AM To: Alan Kay; John Voiklis; squeakland@squeakland.org Subject: RE: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Could we call it Idealistic Programming?
--David Mitchell -----Original Message----- From: Alan Kay [mailto:Alan.Kay@squeakland.org] Sent: Tue 8/19/2003 9:36 AM To: John Voiklis; squeakland@squeakland.org Cc: Subject: Re: [Squeakland] A somewhat silly suggestion for Andreas
Why not call a Tweak object an "Idea"? This would be even more Greek, and more appropriate.
Cheers,
Alan
-----
At 1:36 PM -0400 8/18/03, John Voiklis wrote:
This came to me during mile five (the idea mile) of a recent long jog; so, take it with a grain of salt.
Given that objects in Tweak will be neither Morphs nor traditional objects, I wonder if Andreas would consider calling a Tweak object a "Pragma" (a thing, for the Greekless); that way the computer scientists, educators, and epistemologists among us could develop a theory of "Pragmatic Programming," while avoiding confusion with the various kinds of object-orientedness found in Smalltalk and other languages.
I have not fully thought this out yet, but the idea struck me as fertile enough to risk embarrassing myself by making it public.
Best,
John
Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
-- _______________________________________________ Squeakland mailing list Squeakland@squeakland.org http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
I have been tinkering with writing some advanced topic tutorials and I have run aground when it comes to using non-number data types with variables and with using parameters (whatever the data type).
Can someone give me the run down on the use and usefulness of the various variable data types, as well as the use and usefulness of etoy parameters?
I am not looking for anything in-depth; after all, tutorial writing is my problem. A quick explanation and an even quicker example is more than I need.
Thanks,
John
PS: I look forward to some comments on the tutorial text that has been posted...
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Alan Kay -
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Mitchell, David [CC]