I have just watched a most interesting video a friend pointed out to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlAnkExQabY
The ideas presented in the video seem to be correct and most interesting.
Even more, it seems to me the opportunity of having all those XOs already distributed, we might have the perfect opportunity to apply these ideas.
Of course, I am just a volunteer.
I would really like to listen to the opinion of teachers, educators and other experts.
Mi impression is that, as Mr. Toffler says, the problem he describes in the U.S., is not an exclusive problem of this country.
We will see it in other countries as they go from industrial to digital societies.
Who is the speaker in this video_
¿Quién es el orador en este video?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Toffler
Carlos Rabassa Volunteer Plan Ceibal Support Network Montevideo, Uruguay
en un momento de la intervención de alvin toffler, él habla de un ordenador dentro de un agujero en la pared a disposición de los niños, sin instrucciones de uso y sin instructores. esta "metodología" es conocida como "minimally invasive education" y es el corazón de la iniciativa "hole in the wall" [ http://www.hole-in-the-wall.com/ ].
merece la pena echarle un vistazo.
salú++
ángel ;-)
Ángel,
Muchas gracias, muy interesante.
Había oído mencionar este uso de computadoras pero había pensado que era un simple experimento.
Veo que es todo un sistema de enseñanza muy formal y establecido.
Me recuerda las experiencias de Papert y Negroponte que se describen como origen de OLPC.
Concluyen que los niños de las aldeas más remotas del mundo aprenden a aprovechar la computadora con la misma facilidad que los de países industrializados.
También me recuerda a los niños que juegan solos o con otros niños en las tiendas de Apple en computadoras instaladas con ese propósito en mesas bajas con asientos pequeños.
Es maravilloso acercarse y ver las cosas que hacen.
Miraba el otro día a una niña que aparentaba unos 3 años tomando objetos con el cursor y arrastrándolos hasta el lugar adecuado para ganar puntos en el juego que estaba usando.
Interesante que menciona CBL, computer based learning como algo con resultados mixtos.
Pienso que es un sistema que tuvo y sigue teniendo muchísimo éxito en temas fuera de las escuelas, como ser entrenamiento de mecánicos para atender nuevos modelos de autos.
Sin ir más lejos ayer resolví un problema práctico cuando alguien me preguntó cómo colgar una hamaca paraguaya.
Busqué en internet y encontré este video que contestó la pregunta con todo detalle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-jnEBRmd4U
Es indiscutible que la explicación está sumamente clara.
Y hasta detuvimos el video en algunas imágenes para ver exactamente como está hecha la cuerda con nudos que muestra.
Carlos Rabassa Voluntario Red de Apoyo al Plan Ceibal Montevideo, Uruguay
On Aug 16, 2010, at 6:31 AM, Angel Arias wrote:
en un momento de la intervención de alvin toffler, él habla de un ordenador dentro de un agujero en la pared a disposición de los niños, sin instrucciones de uso y sin instructores. esta "metodología" es conocida como "minimally invasive education" y es el corazón de la iniciativa "hole in the wall" [ http://www.hole-in-the-wall.com/ ].
merece la pena echarle un vistazo.
salú++
ángel ;-)
carlos,
no sé si estás también al corriente de la iniciativa "invisible learning" [aprendizaje invisible] [ http://www.invisiblelearning.com/ ] que hereda ideas de papert "et al".
creo que es otro proyecto que [como cualquier "idea poderosa"] necesita mucho amor y mucho factor humano...
como bill ayers apuntó hace algunos años "we see learning as going on everyplace, unstructured and undefined".
salú++
á.
No sabia para nada, ahora le pego una mirada. Lei material de Papert, gracias por compartir esto, saludos, Carlos
----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel Arias" futuhat@gmail.com To: "Carlos Rabassa" carnen@mac.com Cc: "squeakland.org mailing list" squeakland@squeakland.org Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [squeakland] Teaching in digital society vs industrial society
carlos,
no sé si estás también al corriente de la iniciativa "invisible learning" [aprendizaje invisible] [ http://www.invisiblelearning.com/ ] que hereda ideas de papert "et al".
creo que es otro proyecto que [como cualquier "idea poderosa"] necesita mucho amor y mucho factor humano...
como bill ayers apuntó hace algunos años "we see learning as going on everyplace, unstructured and undefined".
salú++
á. _______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Angel, Thanks for introducing this topic. And also, thanks for the link to invisible learning.
The question is how to use all those avenues of informal learning in a environment such as schools. Schools are structured but still can hold informal learning and kinds of learning that tests do not do a particularly good job of capturing. Perhaps there is still hope that schools can be and will be reformed. I strongly favor public education and think there are many benefits to society of value far beyond the content of textbooks. School is just starting here and my reading has more to do with class lists and schedules but I look forward to more of this discussion. Regards, Kathleen
---- Original message ----
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:47:56 -0300 From: "Carlos Crosetti" carlos.crosetti@mostar.com.ar Subject: Re: [squeakland] Teaching in digital society vs industrial society To: "Angel Arias" futuhat@gmail.com, "Carlos Rabassa" carnen@mac.com Cc: "squeakland.org mailing list" squeakland@squeakland.org
No sabia para nada, ahora le pego una mirada. Lei material de Papert, gracias por compartir esto, saludos, Carlos
----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel Arias" futuhat@gmail.com To: "Carlos Rabassa" carnen@mac.com Cc: "squeakland.org mailing list" squeakland@squeakland.org Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [squeakland] Teaching in digital society vs industrial society
carlos,
no sé si estás también al corriente de la iniciativa "invisible learning" [aprendizaje invisible] [ http://www.invisiblelearning.com/ ] que hereda ideas de papert "et al".
creo que es otro proyecto que [como cualquier "idea poderosa"] necesita mucho amor y mucho factor humano...
como bill ayers apuntó hace algunos años "we see learning as going on everyplace, unstructured and undefined".
salú++
á. _______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
hi kathleen!
maybe the out-of-school learning environment called "computer clubhouses" [ http://www.computerclubhouse.org/ ] could be a good complement to school. i like to see them as "learning" clubhouses. i don't know, but it could be a good starting point.
salú++
á ;-)
Hi Angel, Carlos and Kathleen,
El 17/08/10 20:56, kharness@illinois.edu escribió:
Angel, Thanks for introducing this topic. And also, thanks for the link to invisible learning.
The question is how to use all those avenues of informal learning in a environment such as schools. Schools are structured but still can hold informal learning and kinds of learning that tests do not do a particularly good job of capturing. Perhaps there is still hope that schools can be and will be reformed. I strongly favor public education and think there are many benefits to society of value far beyond the content of textbooks. School is just starting here and my reading has more to do with class lists and schedules but I look forward to more of this discussion. Regards, Kathleen
One of the important theories I have found some years ago and that have informed my educative practice is the theory of communities of practice (Wenger et al). Salomon and others in Distributed Cognition, says that Classroom could be a "simulation" of a community of practice. I have a small presentation in the context of digital habitats to empower communities of practice that connect classroom and outside. You can see them (in Spanish) here:
http://holonica.net/home/Edumatica/gestinfo/habitats-digitales.pdf/view
http://prezi.com/7sp0ejyi7lpw/nomadas-digitales-aprendizaje-y-la-cultura-alt...
One of the nice things about communities of practice as a social theory of learning is that it helps to make visible the invisible and so it can help to close the gap between institutions and the rest of the world.
Cheers,
Offray
Disculame Carlos Robassa y otros Carlos de la distro, estaba respondiendo pilas de emails y no me di centa que no iba dirigido a mi.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Angel Arias" futuhat@gmail.com To: "Carlos Rabassa" carnen@mac.com Cc: "squeakland.org mailing list" squeakland@squeakland.org Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [squeakland] Teaching in digital society vs industrial society
carlos,
no sé si estás también al corriente de la iniciativa "invisible learning" [aprendizaje invisible] [ http://www.invisiblelearning.com/ ] que hereda ideas de papert "et al".
creo que es otro proyecto que [como cualquier "idea poderosa"] necesita mucho amor y mucho factor humano...
como bill ayers apuntó hace algunos años "we see learning as going on everyplace, unstructured and undefined".
salú++
á. _______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
Carlos Rabassa carnen@mac.com writes:
Who is the speaker in this video_
¿Quién es el orador en este video?
As the Wikipedia entry that you reference indicates, Alvin Toffler is the author of _The Third Wave_ [1], a work which described the evolution of information society as a sequence of waves--agrarian, industrial, and post-industrial. This book was also the basis for a Japanese NHK television documentary in the early 1980's.
I watched that documentary back in circa 1981, and was fascinated especially with Toffler's discussion of telecommuting. There is an interesting nytimes.com article [2] describing the "star treatment" that Toffler got in Japan in 1980-81.
-- Benjamin L. Russell
[1] Toffler, Alvin. _The Third Wave._ New York: William Morrow & Co., Inc., 1980. Print. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(book).
[2] McDowell, Edwin. "Publishing: Authors Get Star Treatment in Japan." _The New York Times,_ 20 Feb. 1981. Web. 17 Aug. 2010. http://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/20/books/publishing-authors-get-star-treatment-in-japan.html.
This just looks unsane to me!
Seriously public education is a great achievement for the society and human right. About discipline, you all know we are teaching auto-discipline to the kids not just discipline, especially with teenager.
Does this person try to promote homeschooling or the private education sector?
Hilaire
Le 14/08/2010 18:21, Carlos Rabassa a écrit :
I have just watched a most interesting video a friend pointed out to me.
Toffler is not arguing against public education per se. He's saying that schools resembling factories are inadequate for today's society. We need better forms of education than sitting still in a classroom, having a different topic forced onto you every hour - which still is reality for way too many kids.
- Bert -
On 27.08.2010, at 08:03, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
This just looks unsane to me!
Seriously public education is a great achievement for the society and human right. About discipline, you all know we are teaching auto-discipline to the kids not just discipline, especially with teenager.
Does this person try to promote homeschooling or the private education sector?
Hilaire
Le 14/08/2010 18:21, Carlos Rabassa a écrit :
I have just watched a most interesting video a friend pointed out to me.
Every one want a better education system, that's an easy position. Bashing the existing one is easy, bringing scaling solution is another challange. Personally I have worked both in school and factory (when a teenager), I never thought the two were related nor common: in a factory it is noisy, it is stinking, boss are not particularly friendly, they don't want what is good for you but only the job done. All the opposite a student find in school as today...
It is easy to guess Toffler did not have this experience...
Sorry I don't buy the arguments.
Psychologically, comparing school and factory is an attempts to disregard subliminally public education (the one who bring education to the mass, and me).
Hilaire
Le 27/08/2010 12:19, Bert Freudenberg a écrit :
Toffler is not arguing against public education per se. He's saying that schools resembling factories are inadequate for today's society. We need better forms of education than sitting still in a classroom, having a different topic forced onto you every hour - which still is reality for way too many kids.
- Bert -
On 27.08.2010, at 08:03, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
This just looks unsane to me!
Seriously public education is a great achievement for the society and human right. About discipline, you all know we are teaching auto-discipline to the kids not just discipline, especially with teenager.
Does this person try to promote homeschooling or the private education sector?
Hilaire
Le 14/08/2010 18:21, Carlos Rabassa a écrit :
I have just watched a most interesting video a friend pointed out to me.
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
On Friday 27 Aug 2010 4:23:27 pm Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
Personally I have worked both in school and factory (when a teenager), I never thought the two were related nor common: in a factory it is noisy, it is stinking, boss are not particularly friendly, they don't want what is good for you but only the job done. All the opposite a student find in school as today...
You cannot extend the observation of a single school to all the schools.
It is easy to guess Toffler did not have this experience...
Toffler is right on the target with his observation when you consider schools at large. In India, there are many alternative education systems, but by and large, the state school systems are designed and administered centrally. Each school is run like a factory with specific time slots for specific subjects only. Teachers are hired, trained centrally and deployed across the state with no consideration to local needs. So you find a good swimmer being posted to a school in highlands! Lessons on desert plants go on during peak rainy season! Teaching happens, but not learning. Budgeting is by inputs (buildings, dress, desks and benches) and not outcomes (competencies). This whole system is being challenged and reformed but it will take some time because the rot is broad and deep.
There is one aspect where I wish schools behaved like factories - TQM. When a student fails to complete 12 years of education, I wish the State really throws all its resources to get him/her back on track and fixes the root cause.
Subbu
squeakland@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Angel Arias -
Bert Freudenberg -
Carlos Crosetti -
Carlos Rabassa -
DekuDekuplex＠Yahoo.com -
Hilaire Fernandes -
K. K. Subramaniam -
kharness＠illinois.edu -
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas