squeakland April 2003

squeakland@lists.squeakfoundation.org

104 participants
293 discussions

I want to document but I need to learn first!
by gjbalzano＠ucsd.edu 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

(Preamble/Epigraphs) >... I've been using Squeak since 2.7 and I have never come across any >programming language or system that can humiliate me quite as thoroughly >as Squeak does. > >... It is PAINFUL to feel stupid and dumb and helpless when you are used >to feeling clever and competent, especially when the language itself >is so simple. > R. O'Keefe, 2/13/03 > > -------------------- > >Hello Rachel > >Nine days ago you wrote the interesting mail below >to the Squeaklist. > >May I ask you what are your expections for the documentation >team to come up with? > >... > >There are various things which are beeing worked on now. >But we need "customers" like you. What are your interests in >doing with Squeak? > > H. Hirzel, 2/19/03 > > -------------------- > I am hoping this message will not make a persona non grata on the Squeakdev list, or make me go squeaking back to my little lurker hole in the wall ... but as a competent programmer in many languages (and around Squeak since *before* 2.7), I nonetheless feel the way R. O'Keefe does, *in spades*. And as for Rachel, cited in H. Hirzel's epigraph/email, she, like so many newbies to the squeaklist, appears to be long gone. I did begin, awhile ago, doing a kind of ethnography-of-disappearing-squeak-newbies, tracing their initial enthusiastic postings, the helpful replies (always, always including Ned Konz, bless you sir), the dreadfully high percentage of cases in which this initial enthusiasm would fade away ... but it was too depressing, and to what end? I am not here to trash Squeak -- far from it! I have been around so long, on and off, because I truly do believe, on the one hand, that herein lies a potentially *great* environment for newbies to programming. As a teacher of teachers and an advocate of programming, this gets me very excited, as you can imagine. (And the record 2005 posts to squeak-dev in Feb 2003 was due in no small part to a sudden upsurge in the pedaogical consciousness of the list...also exciting...less so recently...) But I think that if the Squeak insiders really believe that "kids in fifth grade are able to master etoys" (A. Raab, 2/10/03) without one or more Squeak insiders hovering close by, they are sadly mistaken! (This is similar to a problem a fellow named Papert had vis a vis the "learnability" of Logo in the late 70's - early 80's....) "So why should we even listen to this guy?" ("Maybe he really can't even program his way out of a paper bag...") Well, maybe some of you have stopped already. I've made many false starts in Squeak, and the responsiveness of Ned Konz, Karl Ramberg, and Stephane Ducasse (to name a few) to my previous postings is part of what keeps me around ... now I'm responding, instead of Rachel, to Hannes Hirzel's request. >But we need "customers" like you. What are your interests in >doing with Squeak? ***I want to see -- and show others -- a viable learning path through etoys to Morphic-Squeak proper.*** I have some "field notes" from an attempt I made to show etoys to teachers-to-be in UCSD's Teacher Education Program that I would love to share with people on this list. Some of the contents border on painful, but if I could only answer all *their* questions (and remember, if I am twice-, these teachers are three-times-removed from Squeak-insiderness), I would be able to document some of the projects on Alan's "Partial list of Etoy Projects" -- posted to Squeakland 2/11/03 (but not SqueakDev!). Get a load of these (the total "partial" list was almost 40 lines long): Orbits Springs Weighing Gradient following - Salmon and Clownfish Tree Growing Epidemics Multiple Mentalities Grey Walter Conditioned Response Learning Circuit Models Anyone who could create projects like these in any programmable medium, I'd say, would have a serious leg up on "real" programming by anyone's hard-nosed definition of that elusive (and ever-changing) concept. My students (same ones as above) wrote programs in NetLogo, Microworlds (a descendant of Logo), and Stagecast Creator, including a "Turtle Epidemic" model in NetLogo for which I wrote the tutorial (see http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/resources.shtml) and a "Food Fight" game in Stagecast Creator, for which I'd love to be able to write the "etoys tutorial", if I could only see how to do several simple things in Etoys, for example * have an agent (smiley) create another agent (burger) in the space next to him * have an agent (smiley) send a message to a counter agent (count down) each time he "uses up" a burger, and another message to a counter-scorer agent (count up) each time one of his burgers hits his opponent ...just to name two. So, speaking of "viable learning paths", does anyone have a suggestion for one for *me*? Who wants to respond to all the questions my teacher-students raised in my field notes? Who wants to help me complete all the projects on Alan's list? If *I* can't figure out how to do this stuff on my own, there's no way any of the teachers I teach -- even after they've been thoroughly Balzano-indoctrinated to the virtues of programming and completed my more-rigorous-than-99%-of-other-teacher-ed-computer-courses course -- will be able to figure it out either. Respectfully submitted, Jerry Balzano ------------------------- Dr. Gerald J. Balzano Teacher Education Program Dept of Music Laboratory for Comparative Human Cognition Cognitive Science Program UC San Diego La Jolla, CA 92093 (619) 822-0092 gjbalzano(a)ucsd.edu

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Fwd: Re: I want to document but I need to learn first!
by csawtell＠paradise.net.nz 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: I want to document but I need to learn first! Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:47 From: Christopher Sawtell <csawtell(a)paradise.net.nz> To: Kim Rose <Kim.Rose(a)viewpointsresearch.org> On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:50, you wrote: > Hi, Christopher - > > Thanks for your comments -- It's a small comment in a way, but, I > should point out that both the Squeak and Squeakland websites are > ".orgs" not ".coms". Oh?? Why does the address resolve then?? See my command line;- chris@liberty chris $ host www.squeakland.com www.squeakland.com has address 65.104.119.41 _______________^^^ > This was done for explicit reasons and *should* > inform visitors that we are not a commerical site or product driven. I suspect that the reason the .com address is working is because the browsers are all programmed to convert a single word into a fully qualified name in the .com domain. Thus putting "Squeakland" in the location window of a browser will work. It's nice but gives users the completely wrong impression unless the forwarding to the .org page is done non-transparently. > Your suggestion to emphasize the experimental nature/work in progress > is a good one...we felt we had made that point, but perhaps not. We > are beginning to work on a site redesign and will take this into > consideration. The site is so well put together that one gets the distinct impression that Squeak is a "going concern". It's a case of "actions speak louder than words". > I think you've hit on one of the most difficult parts of this work. > It has been for me, certainly. We are attempting several things > with the development of Squeak and we are doing them simultaneously > -- the way we look at it is that we are developing, living and > working in a "Living Lab". The bottom line of our work is > *research*. We are attempting to develop new media and tools to > provide a means of deeper learning for children and adults. However, > this work cannot happen in isolation, so as we develop iterations, > tools, etc., we must share and get users and their feedback. We must > grow our community. We must USE the developments in "real world" > environments AS we continue to refine, change, develop and improve > them. This is what we are attempting to do here. It is our hope that > others, who might be more "product/commerically inclined" would take > our research and perhaps develop "product" on top of it. This would > include documentation, curriclum, a support structure, etc., etc. > Believe me, if anyone realizes how difficult it can be to live in a > "Living Lab" world, it is me. I am constantly pulled between > "research" and "product" -- since many of our users/testers are > approaching Squeak/Etoys as "product", but in fact, it is not. Yes, I understand that. It must be difficult for you. I would just like to give this little bit of practical feedback. If, a small word, but one with much more meaning than its two letters imply, you want to get feedback from people involved with both Squeak and the real world two things are really important: That things work consistently. i.e. backwards compatibility is really important: Error recovery is vital. My experience is that programs break, because of incompatible upgrades to the interpreter, inappropriate input or some other inexsplicable thing, and one is dumped into the pink window of the Squeak Smalltalk debugger. imho that's a real no-no. > I also think what we're all having difficulty with here is that our > community is a mix of different types of people, which is wonderful, > but something else we need to better understand. Many of you have > programming/computer science backgrounds; That is my situation. I am essentially self taught, and know the methodolgy of programming and wanted to share my skill-set with my son. He, by the way, spent some time hovering around the subject, then dived in one day and produced a car track complete with a lake in the middle. The cars suddenly went slower and produced splashing noises when in the water. Having completed that he had the satisfaction of a completed project, and is now at a bit of a loss wondering what to do next, so life has moved on to other things for him. The wonderful thing Squeak did for him was that for the first time in his life he saw the point of using the written word to communicate instructions. We set up a book object to hold the user manual for the car game. As the parent of a child who was having great difficulty with written literacy it was joyous in the extreme to see this happening. Thank you. > others have no programming > experience but would like to think about how they might use computers > to help understand complex ideas. These different 'types' will look > at "the Squeak elephant" in different ways -- so, conversations about > learning "Smalltalk", for example, are completely irrelevant to most > elementary school teachers. That may well be the case for you, living as you do in the strongest economy in the world, but for those of us who live in situations where school is seen very much as a vocational preparation for life, Squeak has the very real advantage over other educational software in that it is written using an open programming language which can be seen at the click of the mouse. Yvonne, the talented ten year old, was continually clicking of the little square on the tiles because she wanted to see what the computer had written for her. For the parents and teachers I have spoken to, the fact that Smalltalk is a real industrial strength computer language of great power and productivity justified the precious time spent "playing at car races" on the computer. You see, Squeak can be a very real first stepping stone on the way to the industrial giants namely VisualWorks, SmalltalkX, GemStone, etc., etc. Mastering these systems gives people the skill-set to become very viable economic entities in a world dominated by those horrors called VB and Java. > Anyways..I just thought I would take a minute to re-emphasize the > "Living Lab" nature of what we are trying to do here....We should > make this more clear on the Squeakland site and we thank you for your > continued input and interest. Getting the balance between the experimental and producing something that can be used in the real world is far from easy. I know that, and admire you folks for having achieved it. > cheers, > Kim > > At 11:32 PM +1300 3/12/03, Christopher Sawtell wrote: > >I've been reading the thread since the first post by Jerry Balzano, and > > would like to make a few comments. > > > >On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:45, John Steinmetz wrote: > >> Thank you for these comments, Jerry. I think you're bringing up > >> important points. > >> > >> I think it needs to be emphasized over and over again that Squeak is > >> a research system. It is not a completed product, but a work in > >> progress, and that causes ome of the frustrations teachers and other > >> novices experience. Perhaps more could be done on the Squeakland site > >> to make this clear. > > > >Yes indeed. That site is very professionally put together and does have a > >dot.com address. In spite of the "Under construction but ready for > > playing". Without explicitly saying so, you give the very distinct > > impression that Squeak is now ready to be used in the school and home by > > "mere mortals". Although I have been around computers for something like > > thirty years now, I have found learning Smalltalk to be one of the most > > difficult intellectual exercises I have ever attempted. There is so much > > of it to learn and the approach to the system is simply out of this world > > when compared to the normal edit a file, compile it, and crash it cycle. > > > >Perhaps you might like to consider making the forward from the .com > > address not quite so transparent, and reinforce the experimental nature > > of Squeak right there on the home page. > > > >> Any programming environment provides challenges to non-expert users, > >> and expert help is often needed. In my opinion many who promote > >> computers as tools for learning say too little about the amount of > >> support teachers and students need in order to get good results. > > > >I'd go so far as to say that in a normal > > > >> I'm sure most people on this list are excited about the promise of > >> Squeak--many kinds of promises, really. It's astounding that Squeak > >> has come so far, and that has a lot to do with people helping one > >> another. Clearly, to get to the next stage, with ordinary users and > >> ordinary teachers being able to use Squeak, much more needs to > >> happen. > > > >Yes, that's true, but please don't dumb it down totally by removing the > > lovely advanced features like the development environment etc. Just hide > > them. _The_ feature with which I have had by far the most success in a > > school setting is the Alice system, I had a very intelligent ten year old > > girl typing commands in like as if there was no tomorrow, and we ended up > > with Alice waving her arms about and Rabbit playing the drum silently. > > After that she asked "Can we program this like I can do Basic on my > > computer at home". Fortunately I had installed the full kit and merely > > hidden the tabs, so we were able to open a workspace and do a little bit > > of Smalltalk scripting to print out the multiplication tables. > > > > > The book by BJ Conn and Kim Rose is one step in that > > > direction. But you are right to remind us not to confuse > >> > >> possibilities and promises with what is really doable now. While > >> working to make some of these possibilites real, the Squeak community > >> needs to try to stay clear about what's not real yet. > > > >I seem to remember that a few years ago there was a "Stable Squeak" > > project. It seems to have disappeared. Anybody know what happened to it? > >Anyway what about having a double release scheme a bit like the Linux > > kernel? UserSqueak - Stable, and DevelopmentSqueak - Unstable. > >Possibly with mail-lists to go with them. I found the squeak-dev list had > > far too much traffic for the time I have available, to say nothing of the > > fact that many of the threads were intellectually beyond me, yet, in > > contrast, up until now this list has appeared to be virtually moribund. > > Is there a SqueakUser list? > > > >> One other thought: Squeak is interesting not just because it makes > >> certain things easy, but also because it is rich and complex. Rich, > >> complex things (music, sports, math, art, etc.) are often difficult, > >> often need very good helpers to be present, and sometimes need a huge > >> amount of infrastructure. > > > >The other thing that everybody is under so much pressure in the school > >setting. What's really needed is time. There's never enough of it. > > > >> For instance, I am a musician today only > >> because my school had a very good music teacher and a pile of > >> instruments made by expert craftspeople and music manufactured by > >> expert composers and publishers--and my parents got me lessons with > >> still another expert, and I was able to play in youth orchestras with > >> more expertise at hand. Even with all this help and encouragement, > >> and even in such a supportive context, it took many years for me to > >> get any good at all. Most of the helpers were able to provide very > >> satisfying projects at every stage--even students who did not become > >> professional musicians were able to have a good time participating. > >> > >> Probably very few schools can offer the kind of infrastructure for > >> computer learning that my school music program offered. Yet I think > >> computers need the same kind of multilayered help and expertise, and > >> a supportive context of enthusiasm and encouragement for the activity. > > > >Without doubt that's the case. I don't know about the situation is other > >countries but here in litle NZ the use of computers in school is very > > patchy. The government is spending a small fortune on providing the > > hardware, operating systems and 'office' oriented software, but there is > > not only a distinct fear of the huge abyss of the unknown, but sadly more > > often than just occasionally a misplaced sense of pride in ignorance. > > This means that the vast majority of computers are badly underutilised > > and often end up just being web-surfing sets, glorified paint-brushes or > > typewriters. > > > >> Maybe we need to lose the idea that doing interesting and valuable > >> things on the computer can happen in isolation. One of the > >> constantly-reinforced fantasies about computers is that they will > >> make good things happen all on their own. It's an attractive notion, > >> but it's a fantasy. If good things are to happen, people will be > >> required. > > > >Oh so very true, but not just people, but skilled and knowledgeble people. > > How many of them are going to both want to and be allowed into school > > classrooms? > > > >> John Steinmetz > >> Squeak enthusiast > >> bassoonist, composer > >> > >> >I am hoping this message will not make a persona non grata on the > >> >Squeakdev list, or make me go squeaking back to my little lurker > >> >hole in the wall ... but as a competent programmer in many languages > >> >(and around Squeak since *before* 2.7), I nonetheless feel the way > >> >R. O'Keefe does, *in spades*. And as for Rachel, cited in H. > >> >Hirzel's epigraph/email, she, like so many newbies to the > >> >squeaklist, appears to be long gone. I did begin, awhile ago, doing > >> >a kind of ethnography-of-disappearing-squeak-newbies, tracing their > >> >initial enthusiastic postings, the helpful replies (always, always > >> >including Ned Konz, bless you sir), the dreadfully high percentage > >> >of cases in which this initial enthusiasm would fade away ... but it > >> >was too depressing, and to what end? > > > >One point to remember here is that it is extremely difficult for an expert > > in any subject to create really good documentation far a lay person about > > that subject. The expert assumes an unreasonable amount of background > > knowledge - the unwritten lore which has become so ingrained that it is > > second nature. He produces a book with lots of what I call 'transparent > > lines', the simple facts just get forgotton. Alternatively he falls into > > the trap of assuming that his reader is a totally witless fool with the > > intellect of a dumb five or six year old. Exaggeration hovering, I know, > > but there is a lot of truth there too. > > > >> >I am not here to trash Squeak -- far from it! I have been around so > >> >long, on and off, because I truly do believe, on the one hand, that > >> >herein lies a potentially *great* environment for newbies to > >> >programming. As a teacher of teachers and an advocate of > >> >programming, this gets me very excited, as you can imagine. (And > >> >the record 2005 posts to squeak-dev in Feb 2003 was due in no small > >> >part to a sudden upsurge in the pedaogical consciousness of the > >> >list...also exciting...less so recently...) But I think that if the > >> >Squeak insiders really believe that "kids in fifth grade are able to > >> >master etoys" (A. Raab, 2/10/03) without one or more Squeak insiders > >> >hovering close by, they are sadly mistaken! > > > >I beg to differ here, I have personally seen a ten year old, and two or > > three 12 year olds use the e-toys most effectively. The ten year old is > > an exceptional student, but the others appeared to be pretty normal > > children who made car races and cannons firing in a morning. ok. Squeak > > e-toys is not for the witless child, but any child old enough to have > > language skills and of normal intelligence can learn to think like a > > computer scientist using Squeak and the e-toys. It's just that not > > everybody wants to learn to think like a computer scientist, so they > > don't. > > > >> >(This is similar to a > >> >problem a fellow named Papert had vis a vis the "learnability" of > >> >Logo in the late 70's - early 80's....) > > > >That's all for the moment. imho what's really needed is a glossary or > >dictionary to the natural language you gurus have developed over the last > >twenty years while Smalltalk has been developing. > > > >Please keep up the good work. > > > >-- > >Sincerely etc. > >C. Sawtell. -------------------------------------------------------

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Volunteering for the documentation team
by G.J.Tielemans＠dinkel.utwente.nl 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

More and More communities of practice use a wiki-site for collaborative documentation of their product: With Swiki we have the nicest Wiki on earth (OK Tiki becomes also nice) I know that Swiki was always meant to be THE tool for this, but it misses cohesie: Could the people with the overview create a new Swiki with a simple book-metaphor: - a clear TOC, maybe even a clever index-system, but at least someting you can recognize as a book: a simple example of this is myscrapbook form the php-family of a more complex ome like Drupal... - and all the others could go to the pages they feel most comfortable in to fill? -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Alan Kay [mailto:Alan.Kay@squeakland.org] Verzonden: woensdag 12 maart 2003 14:19 Aan: The general-purpose Squeak developers list; 'squeakland(a)squeakland.org' CC: kim.rose(a)squeakland.org Onderwerp: Re: Volunteering for the documentation team You just did, and you're "hired". Let's chat more off this list. Cheers, Alan ------ At 4:18 PM -0500 3/11/03, Juntunen, William wrote: > [Juntunen, William] I'm trained as a teacher of English with about >nine years of experience in Michigan. I'm also employed as a programmer with >about six years of experience. How does one apply to work on the >documentation team for eToys? -- --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27-1-2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27-1-2003

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Limited palettes (was RE: I want to document but I need to learn first!)
by gjbalzano＠ucsd.edu 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

[Alan Kay, 3/11] >> So the people who have been very successful at etoys are those that >> are comfortable with any limited palette they are given. This has to >> be widened before we can declare etoys to be a real release. > [Dean Swan, 3/11 (later) >>You know, this could also be interpreted as a feature rather than a >>limitation. It's been my experience that constrained resource >>environments encourage "better" design. Dean - I guess I have to weigh in on the side of those who would want a wider palette of resources. Interestingly, the smaller number of primitive commands in BASIC vs LOGO back in the 70's was used as an argument for BASIC (e.g. "BASIC is easier because there are fewer commands to learn"); in fact, your comment reminded me of a rebuttal of this argument provided in "Mindstorms" which I quote here: >An example of BASIC ideology is the argument that BASIC is easy to learn >because it has a very small vocabulary. The surface validity of the >argument is immediately called into question if we apply it to the context >of how children learn natural languages. Imagine a suggestion that we >invent a special language to help children learn to speak. This language >would have a small vocabulary of just fifty words, but fifty words so well >chosen that all ideas could be expressed using them. Would this language >be easier to learn? Perhaps the vocabulary might be easy to learn, but >the use of the vocabulary to express what one wanted to say would be so >contorted that only the most motivated and brilliant children would learn >to say more than "hi". This is close to the situation with BASIC. Its >small vocabulary can be learned quickly enough. But using it is a >different matter. Programs in BASIC acquire so labyrinthine a structure >that in fact only the most motivated and brilliant ("mathematical") >children do learn to use it for more than trivial ends. (Mindstorms, p. 35) Let me, however, add the following provisos: (a) The "minimalist" exercise of "making do" with an artificially reduced set of resources to accomplish particular (selected) tasks can be quite valuable and satisfying, even if it is not something you would wish (esp on novices!) as a constant state of affairs. (b) Access to the relatively large set of resources should be controlled or at least managed so as not to overwhelm novices, and there are a number of ways to go about this. HyperCard's five "user levels" constituted an interesting attempt at this "shielding" of beginners from unwanted resources, although I'm still not sure what I think of how well it worked. And etoys does have its language resources organized into panes, but here too I keep thinking a better way is on the tip of our collective tongues. - Jerry P.S. I know I am invoking Papert a lot in my postings, but I am trying both to celebrate his insights and take proper warning from (what I believe to have been) his mistakes. Not to confuse necessary and sufficient conditions, I am nonetheless hoping that we Squeakers, by being more aware of history (of both events and ideas), won't be doomed to repeat it.

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EToy French Translation
by scott.wallace＠squeakland.org 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

Hello, Philippe, What's missing is only that you need to evaluate the following expression: Vocabulary setTranslationInitializer: #addFrenchVocabulary forLanguageSymbol: #Francais. ... and once you've done that, you will then find that Francais is available as one of the language choices in the "set language" menu (fourth item in the "help" menu.) And once you choose Francais as a project's language, your French translations will appear on all etoy tiles in the project. To prepare your translation as a SqueakMap package that people can load in to their images, put your #addFrenchVocabulary method into a change-set, and give that change-set a postscript that evaluates that #setTranslationInitializer: expression, and everything ought to work. Hope this helps, -- Scott PS: Sorry for the long delay in responding. Your email had bounced from the Squeakland list and we only became aware of it last week. Then it turns out that the reply I sent ten days ago never made it to the Squeakland list. So here's trying again. >From: philippe(a)capcod.com >To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org >Subject: Etoy French Translation >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:31:06 GMT > >Hello > >I need a little help for language switching after adding >#addFrenchVocabulary method. > >Don t know what to do with #assureTranslationAvailableFor: > >it s not really clear... > >I would like to provide for french teacher and kids translated version and >help. > > > >Squeak is wonderfull, and realy way ahead. Thank you > > >Philippe Nougaillon

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I want to document but I need to learn first! (nbodley@theworld.com)
by michael＠squeakland.org 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <Mailer-Daemon(a)theworld.com> To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 10:22:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-Id: <C7YUYXLHXREAE0ED1ZYWYTVQ3W1TOLNH.3e7496d0@speakeasy> Subject: Re: I want to document but I need to learn first! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: Opera 6.06 build 1143 {Re-sent; unfortunately, confusion caused by a lifetime forwarding e-ddress made the first post bounce. My apologies!} 2003-03-12 11:50:58, Kim Rose <Kim.Rose(a)viewpointsresearch.org> wrote a most-decent, thoughtful and helpful explanation of where Squeak is today. I'm a lurker, but Squeak has so much promise that I continue to stay subscribed. I'm a retired electronic tech, was a midnight hacker in 1960, but had a hiatus from computers from 1962 to 1981. Since then, I've been involved to a modest degree (very simple Z80 device-driver programming, and a semi-technical user/repair/setup person). Although this thought doesn't help much, I found that it does help, in the Squeak[land] environment, to abandon (to the extent possible) habits of thinking that usually are beneficial, and to try to have the outlook of a child. I don't mean that disparagingly; I mean to have the open- mindedness (and curiosity), as well as innocence, and beneficial ignorance of how things are done by adults. There are many ways to do a given task, and one should expect Squeak[land]to be a different land! Not sure these thoughts make sense, and considering the messages about how hard it can be to do certain (seemingly) simple things, this surely is not the whole answer. HTH, and blessings to all. Nicholas Bodley |@| Waltham, Mass. Sent by Opera 6.05 e-mail via TheWorld, using Speakeasy DSL nbodley(a)theworld.com

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EToy French Translation
by pierre-andre.dreyfuss＠edu.ge.ch 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

Hello, I just comming late with my french translation that I promised you a few weeh ago. You can download it as a change set or ready to use as a plugin image. The plug in image has more stuff translated (some menus and the name of the objects in the tabs.) The adress is http://squeakfr.swiki.net/2 Yes it's a SWIKI I have created using swiki.net so join it and share your Ideas and work on the pages The swiki is open , you just need to subscribe to swiki.net to be able to write on the pages. Best regards P-A Dreyfuss Since this is primarely intended to person speaking french I go on with french. Bonjour les francophones, j'ai fait depuis quelque temps une traduction francaise qui est disponible a l'adresse : http://squeakfr.swiki.net/2 Je l'avais promise, il y a deja quelques semaines. Utilisez ce swiki pour echanger des informations sur les E-toy et leurs applications pedagogiques. IL est ouvert a tous, mais pour pouvoir editer les pages, il faut etre inscrit a swiki.net.Aidez-moi a documenter squeak et les E-Toy. Aucune inscription n'est necessaire pour consulter les pages. Amities P-A Dreyfuss -----Message d'origine----- De: Scott Wallace A: philippe(a)capcod.com Cc: squeakland(a)squeakland.org; Michael Rueger Date: 14.03.03 19:26 Objet: Re: EToy French Translation Hello, Philippe, What's missing is only that you need to evaluate the following expression: Vocabulary setTranslationInitializer: #addFrenchVocabulary forLanguageSymbol: #Francais. ... and once you've done that, you will then find that Francais is available as one of the language choices in the "set language" menu (fourth item in the "help" menu.) And once you choose Francais as a project's language, your French translations will appear on all etoy tiles in the project. To prepare your translation as a SqueakMap package that people can load in to their images, put your #addFrenchVocabulary method into a change-set, and give that change-set a postscript that evaluates that #setTranslationInitializer: expression, and everything ought to work. Hope this helps, -- Scott PS: Sorry for the long delay in responding. Your email had bounced from the Squeakland list and we only became aware of it last week. Then it turns out that the reply I sent ten days ago never made it to the Squeakland list. So here's trying again. >From: philippe(a)capcod.com >To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org >Subject: Etoy French Translation >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:31:06 GMT > >Hello > >I need a little help for language switching after adding >#addFrenchVocabulary method. > >Don t know what to do with #assureTranslationAvailableFor: > >it s not really clear... > >I would like to provide for french teacher and kids translated version and >help. > > > >Squeak is wonderfull, and realy way ahead. Thank you > > >Philippe Nougaillon

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Logic circuits simulation
by pierre-andre.dreyfuss＠edu.ge.ch 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

Hi, I have put on squeakland-bss a project for building logic circuits , It was just to see if I could post a project , since from school it is not possible,(we have fireWalls). From home it worked well and the project is there. I hope it will be usefull for others. What are the rules for posting something there ??? !!! HELP about PROXIES !!!! I need help to use squeak with proxies. I saw in the small talk code that there is something about proxies in it. I probably just need to put a file with the name of the proxy and the chanel on it. But where to put that file and what should be on it ??? Best regards. P-A Dreyfuss

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FWD: NPR: Tavis Smiley talks to Salome Thomas-El about uses the game
by michael＠squeakland.org 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:47:09 -0800 From: Darius <squeakuser(a)inglang.com> To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org Subject: NPR: Tavis Smiley talks to Salome Thomas-El about uses the game of chess to motivate his students Here is some insight from an experienced teacher in the inner city. "Chess for Kids" Tavis Smiley talks to Salome Thomas-El about why he gave up a television career to teach kids in the inner-city Philadelphia neighborhood where he grew up, and how he uses the game of chess to motivate his students. Feb. 25, 2003 http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1175171

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A good book on Squeak?
by jaford＠watford53.freeserve.co.uk 18 Apr '03

18 Apr '03

Hi, Any recommendations for a good book on Squeak, please? Regards: Jim Ford

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squeakland April 2003