squeakland July 2003

squeakland@lists.squeakfoundation.org

28 participants
34 discussions

Browser Plugin not working for me
by Louise K. Iyengar 12 Jul '03

12 Jul '03

I am new to Squeak (and very green), but I have been looking into it for an Elementary School course I'll be teaching in the fall. I'm having a problem with the browser plug-in. I have downloaded and installed Squeak 3.5. I tried a number of times to install the browser plug-in, but when I look at any Squeak page, I get a black screen with a screen in the middle saying 'Error: A primitive has failed' on its header. I am using running Windows XP professional with IE 6.0. Any help I can get is appreciated. Thanks, L. Iyengar lkiyengar(a)optonline.net

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RE: [Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools?
by Darius Clarke 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

Hi Jim, Alan, "... if it's not in 'The National Curriculum', it won't get taught" I'm a little confused. This assertion seems to counter the fundamental concepts & motivations behind Squeak somewhat. Consequently the complaint about the assertion seems confused. I, too, believe that the PC/software/media-content-code-development-tools that this generation inherits are not a "subject to be taught" but a "communication medium". To say that "Squeak won't get taught" is like saying "books & magazines won't get taught", or "overhead projectors & transparencies won't get taught", or "surfing the web won't get taught". The same could be said of any teaching medium. The medium is not really ever _in_ the curriculum. More efficient use of the medium might be in it, such as video editing, library use, referencing magazines in bibliographies, etc. but not the medium themselves. Their use is already assumed. The "Hard fun" is not the learning of Squeak. The "Hard fun" is the learning of concepts via Squeak, manipulating/testing the concepts, and manipulating the physical/tangible projects connected to those concepts. Using Squeak should be dead simple, like "learning the Bunsen burner" vs. "learning the chemical reactions". When talking about Squeak and teaching difficult concepts, these two seem to get confused with each other. Making Squeak dead simple also makes it more viral. We need kids to share it with kids, teachers exchanging images with teachers, and children giving images as gifts to parents, thereby increasing everyone's need for it under its own momentum. Hence, copying and _transportability_ is essential... and not to be confused with portability. (Managing and merging classes and images is the issue here as well as the underlying OS' file system structure and privacy/security.) What Squeak provides to the student is what professional software provides to businesses, a tool that "simulates" and "represents". Squeak can simulate anything, just about. With accounting systems, CAD, spreadsheets, and any professional software package you can think of that has increased business productivity, it gets its leverage from the fact that it is as simulation of the things that make money, products, etc. Software gives everyone a handle attached to what they're manipulating (the content of the pot). I believe this is why Croquet is 3D, to take advantage of more robust simulations (and why Microsoft will make 3D the fundamental graphics architecture for its upcoming Longhorn OS http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1072754,00.asp which, in turn, is trying to play catch-up with Apple per this report). Here is Microsoft's foray into changing education (from a paper last year): Technology, Learning and Scholarship in the Early 21st Century By Randy J. Hinrichs www.conferencexp.net/community/documents/LearningXP.doc More MS docs at: http://www.conferencexp.net/community/Default.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=27 And George Lucas' efforts http://glef.org "Modeling" and "simulation" is what we should be selling to teachers, parents, and administrations. ("Simulation" and "Role playing" games in the student's vernacular.) These can still be done with lists & charts and w/o graphics & 3D (e.g. Java/Html-Table Unit Tests). Is excessive testing the problem? Squeak can "embrace and extend" to overcome that. Can't Squeak simulate a test? Can students represent test taking skills in Squeak and simulate, model, and statistically analyze them? Can students create their own tests in Squeak and dynamically link them to their physics models or literary works? Can students test each other in Squeak with their "simulated" tests? Can students submit what the perceive are better tests to the education & governmental administrators? Can the governmental administrators pass the student generated tests? :o Can Squeak help parents better understand what their children are learning, where the children are weak or where the children accelerate, suggest how to help their children learn out of school hours, and suggest how parents themselves can get more help if they are not up to the task (not to mention keep track of all the forms, announcements, and due dates for this-that-and-the-other which students bring home)? Now administrators & parents have a reason to _need_ Squeak. If this is done, Squeak now simulates the school system and illustrating the rules behind its weaknesses and strengths. "Simulation" and "representation" are essential tools to achieve "results based" choices anyway. Can Squeak help Grant Proposal reviewers accelerate the time that they take to review a stack of grant proposals? Can it help provide more accurate grant reviews and teach how to review grants as well (via collaboration, tutorials, and a knowledge-base for example)? If so, mention that fact _in_ the proposal when the Viewpoints Foundation or Squeak teachers apply for grants! That'll open some eyes. Squeak should also model the social difficulties our students face today. Let them explore the full consequences before making life altering or future limiting decisions. We seem to live in a generation of adults who never "grew up" and are often ill equipped to teach "what dire consequences really are" to their children _before_ the children make irreversible choices. Perhaps Squeak's "one-step Cmd-Z key" reflects reality too closely there. Still, we should let parents decide how these models are presented to their children. Last year I mentored & helped my local High School Robotics Team design and build a robot for an academic competition that the students treated with the excitement that they only exhibit at a football match. This was an after school project and an after work projects for the mentoring engineers. Here's my summary. Can a Robot Carry a High School Student into a Brilliant Future? http://www.stormpages.com/futureintent/Robotics.htm Here's the organization that started this competition 10 years ago and now hosts this global competition. http://www.usfirst.org/index2.html Is there not enough time to do all this? We'll, that's the subject of another e-mail. US First does this with their Robotics competition somehow. It's not a "finished product". It's a collection of methods, rules, rewards, goals, scholarships, events, and galvanized parents, teachers, sponsors, and students. Cheers, Darius *********************************************************************************** This transmission contains information which may be legally privileged, proprietary in nature, or otherwise protected by law from disclosure, and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to the addressee(s), you are hereby notified that reading, copying, or distributing this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please telephone us immediately at 818-407-1400 and mail the transmission back to us at the above address. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ***********************************************************************************

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RE: squeak tutorials, etc.
by Nancy Head 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

I haven't seen this... can I have a link? Also, if anyone else knows of other documentation available online, that'd be great too. (I've seen more doc/books/resources at the squeak site but not at the level I'm looking for.) It would be especially helpful to have this kind of resource linked from the squeakland site, if possible. Nancy > For now, I would really stick with the current etoys, because there > is a lot of documentation, including especially the book done by the > Toronto 8th graders that shows many etoy projects as done and created > by middle schoolers. Do you have this "book"? It is a collection of > really well done .pdfs from the Don Mills School in Toronto. >

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Etoy: Saving, Publishing
by Nancy Head 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

How do I save a squeak etoy project? How do I "Publish It!"? Can I place this in "my own" web space (i.e. my account on my isp's server)? Thanks, Nancy

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RE: [Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools?
by Darius Clarke 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

*********************************************************************************** This transmission contains information which may be legally privileged, proprietary in nature, or otherwise protected by law from disclosure, and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to the addressee(s), you are hereby notified that reading, copying, or distributing this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please telephone us immediately at 818-407-1400 and mail the transmission back to us at the above address. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. *********************************************************************************** Alan, Thank you _very much_ for those leads. I'll check them out. > There are strengths and weaknesses with this view > of end-user computing. Some of the strengths are obvious, > but can you spot the weaknesses? I can think of some weaknesses: * Students may not be familiar with the coordinate system - but they play games on grids... a lot. * Information overload - which is why collapsing is essential. * Extra positioning information stored with every object - Unless positioning information is calculate just for the view port of what's needed at the time. * Lack of fine grain control - which is why columns should not be forced to line up with the columns beyond it's scope above and below. Also one should allow as much automatic fine grain adjustments as possible by defining a set of rules on what should be seen. One should inform the system What they want to see and Why, and let the system resolve the positioning. The save the positioning as a named view that the user can navigate to again and reuse. * Fixed boarders take up too much screen space - icons take up more. * Lack of aesthetics - allow coloring and other visual clues, hide grid lines, allow graphics in cells for purposes of control (more like thumbnail representations. * Occlusion at the cell level as when a spreadsheet cell is not allowed to wrap its text - can be handled by hovering or pivoting full info into view. * It's hard to get multiple tools an the screen at the same time such as System Browsers - More freedom in setting column widths should help this. * Navigation can become Disorienting - maps and breadcrumbs would help. * Navigating by arrow keys becomes difficult w/o columns lining up- Another strength: * The car's eye won't see the ScriptEditor on top of the track, even though that is a learning experience too. ______________ Getting schools to change is a social engineering issue. Rules of psychology can be considered tools in that kind of engineering. Remember, of four major personality types (Dominance, Influence, Steadiness, Cautious) most of all people fall in the "I want things safe and not to change" catagory. (Using the D.i.S.C. method) We convince them by showing it's safe to change and dangerous/family-threatening to not make this change. _____________ I had briefly visited Agentsheets before but they didn't seem intuitive to me before. I'll review their sample app again. My search skills brougt up nothing for "The Analyst" in Google. I'll try further afield. _____________ Mitch Kaphor is suddenly very interested in open source spreadsheets now. I wonder why. http://www.osafoundation.org/ - Home page has two articles. Cheers, Darius Dominance getting immediate results causing action accepting challenges making quick decisions questioning the status quo taking authority causing trouble solving problems Influence contacting people making a favorable impression verbalizing with articulateness creating a motivational environment generating enthusiasm entertaining people desiring to help others participating in a group Steadiness performing an accepted work pattern sitting or staying in one place demonstrating patience developing specialized skills concentrating on the task showing loyalty being a good listener calming excited people Cautious following directives and standards concentrating on detail working under controlled circumstances being diplomatic with people checking for accuracy criticizing performance critical thinking complying with authority

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RE: squeak tutorials, etc.
by Nancy Head 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

This week I'm filling out a request to have squeak loaded on computers. I need better clarification of the differences between the "full" squeak vs. the "plugin" squeak so that I can be sure I have what I need, even though I'm only just beginning to become familiar with the tools myself. Can I get clarification on the capabilities of the plugin squeakland vs. development squeak versions? Thanks, Nancy >I had a roomful of middle school boys in a computer club last year who >wanted to create a game. Squeak may be an appropriate tool for them to use. It should be. Many 4-8th graders all over the world have made their own games in Squeak etoys.

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RE: [Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools?
by Darius Clarke 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

Hi Ned, Thanks for your interest. I have been contemplating Squeak as a "programming system for non-experts" for the past year for use in after-school Computer Clubhouse or classroom environments. (I don't know what Andreas has done with "Tweak" in this direction or what the "Scratch" project is doing.) It strikes me that an eToy or Fabrik tile-based approach can be substantially improved by superimposing on it a spreadsheet-like framework, something like an editable grid where the columns are not fixed. The spreadsheet framework represents in the interface itself the Smalltalk principle of "everything visible, searchable, and reference by its name" to the non-expert while simultaneously presenting an order, and an assumption of multiple views off a common data store. My suggestion draws from the cognitive psychology principles found in Jef Raskin's "The Humane Interface" and my experience as an undergrad conducting experiments exploring the linear thinking that most people exhibit vs. network systems thinking (based on Piaget's psychological models). Considering the difference in an programming environment can help the non-expert grow from liner thinking into network thinking using the GUI framework as a crutch. Cells are known to have properties just as classes. The cell/class properties can be pivoted into view when the non-expert needs them and are otherwise collapsed from the view when not needed. This also implies the importance of the Outliner as a view of the same data. Just as the natural Smalltalk data structure for collecting data the collection class hierarchy of list classes, the natural display structure of the spreadsheet is the list. This also shows how lists help preview the debugging with Unit Tests. HttpUnit http://httpunit.sourceforge.net/doc/cookbook.html Cactus http://jakarta.apache.org/cactus/index.html The visual grid for data entry can allow the non-expert to create a visual list of content before assigning the list to a specific class thereby delaying until ready the inheriting of the methods to work on the list. A spreadsheet can syntactically parse and highlight source code just like Squeak's "tile" view in the System Browser. Each tile now being a cell in the spreadsheet. Notice how Squeak's "tile" view in the System Browser preserves the hierarchical nature of the data. The grid format would need to preserve the same. I suggest that users of PC GUI's functionality suggest three distinct modes or planes of display use. An ideal user interface could have two or more full screen planes to represent the difference between text-only-plane information and the exploring/feedback-graphical-plane (similar to how Squeak projects are each a full screen plane). I'd allow the two plane to interact with each other, including having a whole in one plane to reveal specific content in the other, alpha blending, and sharing links to the same content. The insertion point would be unique to either one plane or the other while command keys apply to both. One can have pre-defined templates that reveal part of a text plane grid superimposed over the graphical plane such as how game developers make a heads-up-display (HUD) superimposed over the 2D or 3D graphical scene. They would share the same keyboard input. This takes advantage of TeX type functionality. Text doesn't shrink very well on an CRT, and even worse on LCD, for rapid visual recognition due to fixed pixel size. Also bright colors and complex patterns have a detrimental effect. Therefore, almost all text should be kept on the plane displayed on the surface of the display. This should have no z-buffer. Use grid placement such as web pages to separate and group content. Since the keyboard is the quickest content creation device, this first, display-surface plane would mostly function for searching, grouping, prioritizing, content creation and some establishing relationships between content. The second plane would make use of all the graphic manipulation that Morphic provides. This could be extended by adding a third 3D plane for simulations and storytelling about a process. I'd abandon the common row/column ($AC$12) naming convention of spreadsheets for a new one similar to Excel's named cell ranges which can address specific cells based on offset addressing. The advantages such a grid format has over the window layers that Morphic provides is * the reduction of occlusion * the sense that whatever one needs to find is either above or below the current focus * less distraction of one's attention to manage the windows/icons in the interface * one doesn't need to bother about where a value appears and what it looks like if that degree of fiddling is not needed, it's in the grid _somewhere_ and can always be found by searching * outlining and indention can easily be added to the grid model * like outlines, grids can be collapsed to only show a row with just the view's name or collection's name or other summary representation, Morphs are more sensitive to where the minimized title bar can be found and what will be covered when brought into view * as more fields are created rows can be added or filters applied by "filling in the blank" or inserting a column/row; contrasting the exponentially increasing time to adjust eToy-tiles/connected-graphs/connectors or add more pages to make more white space * tool bar buttons can just be cells in the grid too Graphics are always aligned by a grid of Cartesian coordinates as well. Hiding links of grid to remove "bars of a jail" feeling. Music scales on grid. How would one represent music theory? Midi composition & Video editing is done on grids. New rows below appended below all prior content build on and easily link to and reference back up to prior content cells above. Goals of the environment should be included as a part of the environment. Cheers, Darius -----Original Message----- From: Ned Konz [mailto:ned@bike-nomad.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 08:03 AM To: Darius Clarke; Alan Kay; Squeakland; Jim Ford Cc: Kim Rose Subject: Re: [Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools? On Wednesday 09 July 2003 12:57 am, Darius Clarke wrote: > I believe that Squeak/eToys UI severely underutilize lists and > outlines as essential tools for Watching [snip] > But this could be easily rectified. ( I just need a little more time.) This is an interesting topic to me. I've written a (text) outliner that I use all the time <http://bike-nomad.com/vim/vimoutliner.html> and have found it really useful. And I'm also working with the Tablet PC and Squeak, in conjunction with my Connectors framework for Squeak. One of the "sample apps" I'm doing is a quick brainstorming/concept-mapping tool using ink (and/or recognized or keyboarded text) and Connectors. Once you have a bunch of items and can indicate some structure between them (with Connectors, we draw lines between the items), you can present that structure in different ways. For instance, it can be turned into an outline (though of course a typical outline (without aliases) is a tree structure rather than a general graph like you can draw. And an outline can be turned back into a shapes-and-lines graph representation easily. I'm curious as to what you think we could (or should) do with outlines (and connected graphs, and ink, and gestures) in Squeak. Thanks, -- Ned Konz http://bike-nomad.com GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE *********************************************************************************** This transmission contains information which may be legally privileged, proprietary in nature, or otherwise protected by law from disclosure, and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to the addressee(s), you are hereby notified that reading, copying, or distributing this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please telephone us immediately at 818-407-1400 and mail the transmission back to us at the above address. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ***********************************************************************************

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RE: [Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools?
by Darius Clarke 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

*********************************************************************************** This transmission contains information which may be legally privileged, proprietary in nature, or otherwise protected by law from disclosure, and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to the addressee(s), you are hereby notified that reading, copying, or distributing this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please telephone us immediately at 818-407-1400 and mail the transmission back to us at the above address. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. *********************************************************************************** Hi Alan <-- > ... treating Squeak as a medium ... > ... being really careful about terminology ... Still, watching schools treating the computer as a medium, they welcome the equipment with open arms, just without the content-creation software to make learning "hard fun". I know the difference of which you speak between Squeak & eToy. I consciously adopted the convention of the Squeakland site which uses "Squeak" in the generals sense, most frequently used with your publicity and with children, to mean the platform for instigating a change in education. We're not going to eToyFest next month. :) (I suspect that is because "squeak" is more a playful word of expression, while "eToy" has a more business sounding tone. It reminds me of the failed Zowie playset toys http://www.geocities.com/piernot/proj/zowie/) ... "real math" and "real science"... Do you have suggested reading for the above? I know someone asked this before, but he was not given much of an answer. ... McLuhan and Postman ... I’ll read these authors' books from your suggested reading list page on Squeakland. However, as counterpoint, here's an anecdote. I read somewhere (lost the reference) that there was a debate when the printing press started to become popular in the Middle Ages. Those opposed to the printing press' use argued that everyone would lose the ability to remember vast amounts information, if they could just keep it in a book and only reference it when they needed to. And, the opponents were right. Western culture has just about completely lost any oral tradition now that literacy reigns supreme (except urban myths). However, the same reference pointed out a hidden blessing. With books, as opposed to oral tradition, the facts and conditions at the time of observation & discovery could be kept much more accurately and distributed w/o data loss. This lead to reproducibility of experiments and then on to the discovery of the “scientific process” which we enjoy the fruits of today. T.V. is also credited for unifying demand across the country which allowed food producers to standardize and leverage mass production techniques within the limit of supply and demand which, in turn, gave rise to the most stable food supply system in the world, reducing much of the seasonal famines our ancestors were use to. Yes, message and medium are linked. Nevertheless, we’ll see a change now that High School students have loaded camcorders and know how to use them (for documentaries). T.V. will soon give way to the “everyman” video producers. With the Internet, there will be the “everyman” broadcasters. Just as blogs have become the “everyman” syndicates. And, there will be a _different_ link between the message and medium and a different effect. I strongly follow Janet H. Murray’s prognostication for the future of both the media and message in “Hamlet on the Holodeck - The Future of Narrative in Cyberspace”. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=dp_sr_00/102-33189… Have you read Murray’s book? Cheers, Darius _______________________________________

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RE: [Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools?
by Darius Clarke 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

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Developing a CAD system based on Squeak and Croquet
by MarkSundberg 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Aloha Any and All, I am not sure if this is the correct venue for this inquiry, but here goes. If not, maybe someone can direct me to a better one. I am an architect deeply enmeshed in CAD work particularly 3D modeling and using 3D models directly in documentation of work. The process is somewhat analogous to building a scale model (the scale being 1:1) and then taking pictures of that model, carefully selecting the viewpoints to match the traditional orthagonal views, then overlaying the pictures with notations as to materials, assemblies and dimensions. I have been working on the notion of a digital design suite that runs from a fully interactive 3D environment accessible collaboratively over the internet or some other network, through a fully effective 3D modeling system to documentation in the field with interactive side branches to various engineering disciplines and beyond to facilities management post construction including perhaps full interface with the facility users. A good example of this would be a museum or cultural center, the concept is discussed interactively over the network, with the site fully modeled in walk around 3d, including views from the site, maybe even active views from web cams set up on the site, the designers would generate model solutions for review and comment, refinements tried out while the design models are analyzed by engineering programs, eventually a design is selected and scanned for construction documents, perhaps just made available to hand held computers in the field, upon completion of construction, the model is used for facilities management and also populated with the exhibits for review by students, researchers and potential visitors who can also bring their handheld (or rent one at the facility, downloading their personal tour) to assist with their visit. Sort of like the vision in the Squeak Book for a Theme Park. I was introduced to Croquet last Fall and because of that have gained an interest in Squeak, which it seems will be the natural operating environment for Croquet. I believe Croquet/Squeak will be capable of realizing the above scenarios but there will need to be the various methods and morphs, classes and so on specifically designed for that purpose. I would like to work with someone more adept and knowledgeable of Squeak/Croquet than I to develop these. I know what they have to do, I just am not very clear on how to develop them. I see this could become a primary means of public input to large scale development as well as a wonderfully intuitive way to design one's own environments as well as those of others. It could also become a great way to introduce the public to the many facilities that abound, from museums and galleries, to public facilities of any kind, to parks and monuments, even to cruise ships and other mass transit. I see something akin to the vision in Gibson's Virtual Light where there exists a cyber duplicate to the real world, but with all the related data linked in. So, if there is anyone out there that's interested in this idea, please contact me. Mark Sundberg, Architect

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squeakland July 2003